Goat Restraining or Pigeon Toed Stance

[wolf3001]

Because I am from the William Cheung branch we do not use this at all. Over the years I have heard many arguments against this being used in any way or at least as a fighting stance. I have read a bit about it but not enough to really understand it. So I am going to ask what is it's uses and how is it used in your system if you use it at all? Cheung practiced Wing Chun under Ip Man I find it hard to understand why it's not used in our system if he had learned it. I have seen a few who come from other branches doing Siu Lim Tau and it seemed to me they left it out as well but I think they used it in other areas.

As a fighting stance I don't see it's usefulness although I have seen some similar techniques in other arts but they were used only as a step in transitioning between stances. One such example was talking about protecting the Femoral Artery during a knife attack. This came from a Ninjutsu technique I read about as a kid. I believe I have even seen Hung Gar people turning into such a stance but again it was a transitioning movement between stances.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

The stance is for training, not for fighting. I doubt you will find anyone, compentent anyhow, trying to utilize this stance in actual combat. However, this stance is found in many other arts to include several of the Silat or Kuntao variety.

[trubblman]

It's clearly not a fighting stance despite what some practitioners of a certain lineage assert. IMO, it's used to strengthen legs, and for internal strength development.
Here is what CST says
"We want to measure a good position with the natural stance or Yee Chi Kim Yeung Ma. After finishing the natural stance, both of my feet are angle inward to form a triangle shape if you image there are two lines extends from my both feet where the tip of my toes and the tip of my heel to the front of my body. When both imaginary lines of my feet reached an intersection, it creates a point. This point is where we put our entire body force. When we punch, we must use that point as our target."
He goes on to say you are supposed to pull up the perineum, straighten the spine and thus the 'hei' will rise. I am assuming corresponds to chi.

[Phil Redmond]

It's clearly not a fighting stance despite what some practitioners of a certain lineage assert. . .

As a TWC Sifu I will agree that it's not a fighting stance.

[k gledhill]

Not a fighting stance...

[trubblman]

Here is what Chu Shong Tin thinks of SLT; I think he says it best and most authoritatively:

http://www.tstvingtsun.bc.ca/HiddenP...SNT_remix.html

[YouKnowWho]

If this is the stance that we are talking about here, I believe it could be used as a fighting stance on a small boat in the old China. Any snow ski beginner will know how to use this stance on ski slope.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...:0&tx=67&ty=46

[k gledhill]

Hello,

The stance is for training, not for fighting. I doubt you will find anyone, compentent anyhow, trying to utilize this stance in actual combat. However, this stance is found in many other arts to include several of the Silat or Kuntao variety.

We use it to train the foot angles that in turn stabilize the hip joint. We deliver lateral GING force simultaneously as we strike /deflect , pak sao, tan elbow, jum elbow, Bong sao = <sharp energy> left or right relative to the joan sien [centerline] so we have to have a good hip base with knees inwards and hips stabilized.
Also in chi-sao striking drilling , each partner is aligning intensive pressure of strikes in rotation, tan strike elbow force >versus< jum strike elbow force, each arm creating an invisible plane of equilibrium, as this happens the hips are fighting to stay forwards constantly in a battle of stability with the partner, not sparring yet just preparing the structure delivering the arms.
Each partner is deliberately placing the other in an exchange of force. The hips need to stay forwards to allow the legs to drive them forwards , ie not try to lean forwards to compensate....
We move from this equilateral stance into testing structures in motion, seung ma toi ma , seung ma toi ma with angling, etc...then drills with no pre-contact to simulate the angles adopted in chi-sao but using the developed strong stances in motion with striking and parrying in tactical lines of engagement randomly, furthering into free sparring.
Many ime don't do this form of chi-sao and usually do the steering wheel wristing hand chase bs thing that doesn't translate to the aforementioned drilling ideas. WHY ?
because they don't encompass striking and alignment with structured force to back them up. they go into 'statue blocking' and turning stances to 're-direct' force with whole body instead of more efficient strikes with dual deflecting ability.
Its not a fighting stance, just a neutral training stance to move from, as posted above the triangulation helps students to focus their lines.
even in chum kil the leading foot is turned slightly inwards for this thinking, stability. The SLT ygkym conditions this .

[Phil Redmond]

Because I am from the William Cheung branch we do not use this at all. . .

We do use the goat restraining stance in TWC except the toe are parallel like the character 2. The stance is called Yee Jee Kim Yeung Man. Character 2 clamping/pinching the goat stance.

. .