Goat Restraining or Pigeon Toed Stance

[Phil Redmond]

I just found out that some lineages use Yang and not Yeung (goat) so I stand a corrected.

[Runlikehell]

Phil, it's entirely possible that it was originally meant to be 陽, but without much written translation early on it could have been recorded as 羊. Similar to the differing opinions regarding 詠 and 永.

Of course, this is just a thought.

EDIT: Disregard this post, as we must have been writing at the same time.

[Phil Redmond]

Phil, it's entirely possible that it was originally meant to be 陽, but without much written translation early on it could have been recorded as 羊. Similar to the differing opinions regarding 詠 and 永.

Of course, this is just a thought.

EDIT: Disregard this post, as we must have been writing at the same time.

imperialtaichi is Kulo lineage. They use Yang. Kulo is older then YMWC so Yang could be correct.

[Graham H]

YJKYM for learning and developing the correct structure. Not for fighting or developing stupid ideas like "chi". It's a training stance. It seems most agree which is a good sign for a change!!

G

[LoneTiger108]

Wow!

Still the same old disagreements over a 'core fundamental' method of Wing Chun. It's almost laughable, and at the same time totally embarrassing to see the lack of confidence in simple language here. I mean, I'm practically illiterate with the written Chinese word without my dictionaries but still know why (according to verbal transmission) Ip Man used Yeung (Goat) over Yeurng (Yang) AND I can also see the benefits of 'both'.

Where 'pigeons' come into it I really don't know! Maybe another dig at the British, like the infamous 'Fox'!

[TenTigers]

Hung Kuen and other Nam Siu Lum styles use YJKYM (Yeung)
I find it odd that they use Yi, rather than Bot.
But, if you stand in YJKYM, if you draw a line connecting the toes and another connecting the heels, it forms the Yi Ji.
(I still say it looks more like a bot ji of you look at the feet...)

[LoneTiger108]

But, if you stand in YJKYM, if you draw a line connecting the toes and another connecting the heels, it forms the Yi Ji.

Man! The first person to explain it simply (like, as it IS!) isn't even a Wing Chun man

FWIW There were foot positions I have referred to as 'poon long' that are 'faan baat' (inverted 8) in TCMA terms

[k gledhill]

I would lean more to Yang hip. It is a hip
position workout when exchanging energy.

[Phil Redmond]

Wow!

Still the same old disagreements over a 'core fundamental' method of Wing Chun. It's almost laughable, and at the same time totally embarrassing to see the lack of confidence in simple language here. I mean, I'm practically illiterate with the written Chinese word without my dictionaries but still know why (according to verbal transmission) Ip Man used Yeung (Goat) over Yeurng (Yang) AND I can also see the benefits of 'both'.

Where 'pigeons' come into it I really don't know! Maybe another dig at the British, like the infamous 'Fox'!

So your slam was to whom?

[Phil Redmond]

Hung Kuen and other Nam Siu Lum styles use YJKYM (Yeung)
I find it odd that they use Yi, rather than Bot.
But, if you stand in YJKYM, if you draw a line connecting the toes and another connecting the heels, it forms the Yi Ji.
(I still say it looks more like a bot ji of you look at the feet...)

It does look like a baat ji. If the feet are straight is looks more like a yih jee.

[wolf3001]

I read some stuff awhile back as I said about it dealing with Chi cultivation. After reading some here I think that has some or all to do with it if not cultivation it has something to do with energy. I may be wrong but I believe some of what I read said something about locking in the energy..... It could very well be a strengthening exercise and nothing more.

I am sure years ago I seen people standing in the stance and practicing fighting techniques. They were leaning far back and doing a drill against a straight punch. To me it seems odd practicing the fighting techniques in such a way. I know that many in my school have an incorrect view on the stance it's curious to me why William Cheung's Siu Lim Tau lacks this and wondering if any other more major branches also lack this.

[anerlich]

Basically, it's a goat-clamping stance - and the goat in question is the opponent's lead leg. If your opponent steps between your legs and attempts a throw, trip or push, just clamp down on their leg (thigh area.) Continue your assault as able.

Interesting take - there are wrestling techs which require you to trap your opp's leg with both of your own.

I found that my training in TWC parallel stance (we do not turn the toes in) helped significantly with my standing guard passes and standing postural defence against sweeps in BJJ.

[wolf3001]

Where 'pigeons' come into it I really don't know! Maybe another dig at the British, like the infamous 'Fox'!

The pigeon toe reference is just what people say when someone has their toes in like that. Has nothing to do with the stance but many refer to it as a Pigeon Toed Stance. I had no idea what it was called before reading a bit about it. Thats when I read Goat Holding, Gripping or Restraining stance.

Qigong Goat Gripping Stance
When the form of this stance is correct and you are relaxed, chi flowing in from the Cosmos will naturally accumulate at your dan tian as well as root you to the ground. This is the secret why practicing this stance (as well as other stances) develops internal force. In some schools, the knees are hooked in tightly, but in our school the knees are only slightly hooked in and are relaxed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sebCAJhVH_o

This doesn't really say much of why we use it in Wing Chun but describes much of what I have read here thus far.
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/print.php?article=919

[anerlich]

Where 'pigeons' come into it I really don't know! Maybe another dig at the British, like the infamous 'Fox'!

Pigeon Toe is a reference to a medical condition where the toes point inward to an exaggerated degree.

No dig at the British, they probably invented the term. (though of course all us Aussies, Irish and Americans hate the Brits)

No idea what the Fox reference refers to.

Does the word "paranoid" mean anything you?

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=anerlich;1098567]Pigeon Toe is a reference to a medical condition where the toes point inward to an exaggerated degree.

No dig at the British, they probably invented the term. (though of course all us Aussies, Irish and Americans hate the Brits)
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pigeon toe- yes- an English term.

Some Indians too. Much of the world is now paying for the hegemony the Brits created in South Asia(divide and conquer, Middle east (they carved much of the boundaries and started the oil theft), the Opium trade(my hometown Calcutta) is where ships were loaded with opium bound for Canton> Nota racist comment but a cultural one.
As a boy and youth I had to sing God Save the King for that stuttering rascal while I was not allowed into the tennis clubs, swimming clubs etc. And Churchill aaargh! Enough.

joy