Wing Chun Lineage with Chin Na and Throw

[kowloonboy]

I am new to Wing Chun, and I read there are Chin Na and Throws in Wing Chun. But also I have read that Chin Na and Throws doesn't exist in Wing Chun.

Could people please advice me if Wing Chun have Chin Na and Throws? Also if it does exist, then which lineage will this be in? Thanks

[LoneTiger108]

Could people please advice me if Wing Chun have Chin Na and Throws? Also if it does exist, then which lineage will this be in? Thanks

I think most Wing Chun that has some sort of emphasis on weaponry, especially the pole, will have chin na (promounced 'cum la' in Cantonese) The beginners exercise of Lapsau introduces this method of training.

This may narrow your search somewhat though as there aren't that many schools that teach pole plays to beginners fme

[trubblman]

You probably can work throws into your using of VT. Throws and Chin Na on the grand scheme of things are relatively simple techniques to learn. The difficulty in my opinion is positioning yourself to work the techniques on your opponent. IMO I dont think there are throws or chin na intrinsic to VT because in trying to execute them the practitioner has to position his or her body facing away from the opponent in many cases. For example to perform a hip throw, a common throw in most martial arts, you have to turn your body away from the opponent.

[mjw]

THere is foot work for a few throws in the 3rd form then in the 2nd form the part with the 3 arm breaks could also be chin na type finger/wrist manipulations if you can make locks and throws work in your chi sau/ gore sau then use them just stick to the theory be simple and direct

[Jansingsang]

I believe Gary lam uses a bit of Chin na within his syllabus of Wing Chun finger pointing to the moon Peace

[trubblman]

I have seen some of Gary Lam's videos and he uses a lot of seizes and throws with his Wing Chun. It looks as if he uses a lot of arm wrap with kicks for takedowns. I have to say of all the practitioners of VT I am most impressed by him. Alas! I live on the East Coast.

[mvbrown21]

I am new to Wing Chun, and I read there are Chin Na and Throws in Wing Chun. But also I have read that Chin Na and Throws doesn't exist in Wing Chun.

Could people please advice me if Wing Chun have Chin Na and Throws? Also if it does exist, then which lineage will this be in? Thanks

Hey Kowloonboy,

It's nice to see your interest in WC and I wish you well on your journey!

Joy or ntc might be able to answer this better than me(Joy, hopefully there's no hard feelings between us ), but I know that the Fong system has quite a few applications of wrist locks and arm bars. My Sifu is really good at them out of flow and in real application(he works at a mental health hospital). I know he did some supplemental training in them as well.

I would imagine too that you might find more "chin na" type applications in what some here call the "wristing" systems as opposed to the immovable elbow systems. This would probably be due to the fact that having control of the arm in that manner sets you up for easier application of locks. I may be wrong though?

You can see a few examples of some locks from our lineage in these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2UrD...el_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVl2J...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfYa4...C69A4868878EEA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBEwk...878EEA&index=5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0u3I...el_video_title

And then there's a few much less skilled examples in my video "Wing Chun Flow, Pt. 1" which you can find on my youtube page.

Good luck!

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=mvbrown21;1098544]Hey Kowloonboy,

It's nice to see your interest in WC and I wish you well on your journey!

Joy or ntc might be able to answer this better than me(Joy, hopefully there's no hard feelings between us ), but I know that the Fong system has quite a few applications of wrist locks and arm bars.

----Matt- rest assured- no hard feelings whatsoever.
I respect Anerlich(Andrew N) but we will have different POVs on this.

(( I rather take flack than have it directed at my seniors. Common disclaimer in publishing as well)))))

IMO- control (the self and the other) are more important in wing chun than technique and when you keep developing on that path...throws, and joint control and breaks are goodies along the way. You don't need to change boats in midstream .

I respect and am interested in other approaches to chin na, throws and ground work.

joy chaudhuri

[YouKnowWho]

Trying to find locking and throwing in the WC system is almost the same as trying to find kicking and punching in the Judo system. Both make little sense IMO.

[Vajramusti]

Trying to find locking and throwing in the WC system is almost the same as trying to find kicking and punching in the Judo system. Both make little sense IMO.

----------------------------------------
It's ok- you have your own pre conceptions of what wing chun is about and you apparently
misread my post.

joy chaudhuri

[Mulong]

Even though some shifu don’t teach qinna or shuai, but all style of Chinese martial arts possess them.

[Vajramusti]

Even though some shifu don’t teach qinna or shuai, but all style of Chinese martial arts possess them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Ip man's wing chun as a system is fairly open ended- the limits may be in the practitioner, his
learning, diligence in practice and experience, imo ofcourse.

joy c

[anerlich]

I respect Anerlich(Andrew N) but we will have different POVs on this.

I appreciate and reciprocate the respect but am not so sure our opinions are that divergent.

Alan Orr's vids give a good overview of his and Robert Chu's approach to Chin-na as an aspect of their WC.

There are a few throwing applications on the forms and dummy sets, but very few if any practitioners train them to the degree where they could hang with a judo BB or experienced wrestler. IMO WC's forte is as a pugilistic system, and if you want to become a world class thrower of takedown artist you would be better studying other systems.

Ip man's wing chun as a system is fairly open ended- the limits may be in the practitioner, his
learning, diligence in practice and experience, imo ofcourse.

Agreed.

[dirtyrat]

Trying to find locking and throwing in the WC system is almost the same as trying to find kicking and punching in the Judo system. Both make little sense IMO.

Wing chun's arrow punch can easily lead to a throw called 'cracking' in shuaijiao.
In the CK set, you can find a shuaijiao move called 'elbow locking'. The 'lan sao' posture looks to me like a variation of shuaijiao 'pulling' throw. etc, etc.

WC seems to me, based on its favored structure and postures, to be a system that would favor more leg sweeping type of throws.

[YouKnowWho]

Wing chun's arrow punch can easily lead to a throw called 'cracking' in shuaijiao...

The major part of the throw is not the hand movement but the body movement. The throwing Shenfa (body method) requires:

- bend forward to touch your head to your knee.
- bend head down and kick leg up.
- spin your whole body along your spine axis.
- spin your upper body in one direction and spin your low body in opposite direction.
- ...

Those principles and trainings are missing in longfist, mantis, Baji, Tong bei, Zimer, Taiji, XingYi, Bagua, ... and not just missing in WC (if we can be honest to ourselves).