Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 60

Thread: October 21, 2011: Rapture Redux

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,392

    October 21, 2011: Rapture Redux

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/23...s-says-months/

    OAKLAND, Calif. -- As crestfallen followers of a California preacher who foresaw the world's end strained to find meaning in their lives, Harold Camping revised his apocalyptic prophecy Monday, saying he was off by five months because the Earth actually will be obliterated on Oct. 21.

    Camping, who predicted that 200 million Christians would be taken to heaven Saturday before global cataclysm struck the planet, said he felt so terrible when his doomsday message did not come true that he left home and took refuge in a motel with his wife. His independent ministry, Family Radio International, spent millions -- some of it from donations made by followers -- on more than 5,000 billboards and 20 RVs plastered with the Judgment Day message.

    Follower Jeff Hopkins also spent a good deal of his own retirement savings on gas money to power his car so people would see its ominous lighted sign showcasing Camping's May 21 warning. As the appointed day drew nearer, Hopkins started making the 100-mile round trip from Long Island to New York City twice a day, spending at least $15 on gas each trip.

    "I've been mocked and scoffed and cursed at and I've been through a lot with this lighted sign on top of my car," said Hopkins, 52, a former television producer who lives in Great River, NY. "I was doing what I've been instructed to do through the Bible, but now I've been stymied. It's like getting slapped in the face."

    Camping, who made a special appearance before the press at the Oakland headquarters of the media empire Monday evening, apologized for not having the dates "worked out as accurately as I could have." Through chatting with a friend over what he acknowledged was a very difficult weekend, the light dawned on him that instead of the biblical Rapture in which the faithful would be swept up to the heavens, May 21 had instead been a "spiritual" Judgment Day, which places the entire world under Christ's judgment, he said.

    The globe will be completely destroyed in five months, he said, when the apocalypse comes. But because God's judgment and salvation were completed on Saturday, there's no point in continuing to warn people about it, so his network will now just play Christian music and programs until the final end on Oct. 21.

    "We've always said May 21 was the day, but we didn't understand altogether the spiritual meaning," he said. "The fact is there is only one kind of people who will ascend into heaven ... if God has saved them they're going to be caught up."

    It's not the first time the 89-year-old retired civil engineer has been dismissed by the Christian mainstream and has been forced to explain when his prediction didn't come to pass. Camping also prophesized the Apocalypse would come in 1994, but said later that didn't happen then because of a mathematical error.

    Monday, rather than give his normal daily broadcast, Camping took questions as a part of his show, "Open Forum," which transmits his biblical interpretations via the group's radio stations, TV channels, satellite broadcasts and website.

    Camping's hands shook slightly as he pinned his microphone to his lapel, and as he clutched a worn Bible he spoke in a quivery monotone about some listeners' earthly concerns after giving away possessions in expectation of the Rapture.

    Family Radio would never tell anyone what they should do with their belongings, and those who had fewer would cope, Camping said.

    "We're not in the business of financial advice," he said. "We're in the business of telling people there's someone who you can maybe talk to, maybe pray to, and that's God."

    But he also said that he wouldn't give away all his possessions ahead of Oct 21.

    "I still have to live in a house, I still have to drive a car," he said. "What would be the value of that? If it is Judgment Day why would I give it away?"

    Apocalyptic thinking has always been part of American religious life and popular culture. Teachings about the end of the world vary dramatically -- even within faith traditions -- about how they will occur.

    Still, the overwhelming majority of Christians reject the idea that the exact date or time of Jesus' return can be predicted.

    Tim LaHaye, co-author of the best-selling "Left Behind" novels about the end times, recently called Camping's prediction "not only bizarre but 100 percent wrong!" He cited the Bible verse Matthew 24:36, "but about that day or hour no one knows" except God.

    "While it may be in the near future, many signs of our times certainly indicate so, but anyone who thinks they `know' the day and the hour is flat out wrong," LaHaye wrote on his website, leftbehind.com.

    Signs of disappointment also were evident online, where groups that had confidently predicted the Rapture -- and, in some cases, had spent money to help spread the word through advertisements -- took tentative steps to re-establish Internet presences in the face of widespread mockery.

    The Pennsylvania-based group eBible Fellowship still has a website with images of May 21 billboards all over the world, but its Twitter feed has changed over from the increasingly confident predictions before the date to circumspect Bible verses that seem to speak to the confusion and hurt many members likely feel.

    Camping offered no clues about Family Radio's finances Monday, saying he could not estimate how much had been spent on getting out his prediction nor how much money the nonprofit had taken in as a result. In 2009, the nonprofit reported in IRS filings that it received $18.3 million in donations, and had assets of more than $104 million, including $34 million in stocks or other publicly traded securities.

    Josh Ocasion, who works the teleprompter during Camping's live broadcasts in the group's threadbare studio sandwiched between an auto shop and a palm reader's business, said he enjoyed the production work but he had never fully believed the May 21 prophecy would come true.

    "I thought he would show some more human decency in admitting he made a mistake," he said. "We didn't really see that."
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,073

    Rapture raincheck

    I guess we'll meet back here in Oct...
    Harold Camping now says end is coming Oct. 21
    Michael Cabanatuan, Chronicle Staff Writer
    Tuesday, May 24, 2011

    (05-23) 20:06 PDT ALAMEDA --

    The end is still near, radio preacher Harold Camping said in a broadcast Monday night, but the world will be around until Oct. 21.

    Camping, the 89-year-old East Bay preacher who gained international fame with his prediction that the rapture would come at 6 p.m. Saturday, said that he misinterpreted the Bible and that May 21 was not really the end of the world but the spiritual beginning of the physical end.

    "Were not changing a date at all; we're just learning that we have to be a little more spiritual about this," he said in a rambling 90-minute radio broadcast that was part sermon, part press conference. "But on Oct. 21, the world will be destroyed. It won't be five months of destruction. It will come at once."

    The good news, for those dreading five more months of talk about the rapture, is that Family Radio will be taking down its billboards, ceasing distribution of Bible tracts and literature about Judgment Day and focusing its programming on religious music and God's word, not on a countdown to the end.

    "We don't need to talk about it anymore," Camping said. "The world has been warned - my it has been warned. We have done our share and the media picked it up. The world has been warned that it is under judgment."

    Despite being pressed by reporters, Camping refused to take responsibility for any pain or suffering his prediction may have caused, saying that he was merely interpreting the Bible, and that he did so incorrectly.

    "I have never, ever told anyone I'm infallible," he said. "But God is infallible."
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,073

    This is from one of my fav local columnists...

    ...well said. Zombies.

    Were there zombies at the Rapture?
    Jon Carroll
    Tuesday, May 24, 2011

    I'm glad everyone made it through the apocalypse OK. I was worried there for a while, since I had signed up on Facebook with a group that pledged to start looting once the Rapture was over, and I realized belatedly that I had never looted before. Practice runs were pretty much out of the question.

    Besides, I have too much stuff already. I would have been reduced to looting trinkets, which hardly seems worth it. I can buy trinkets and not have to worry about the end of the world at all. Not that I am judging any people who saw a pile of clothing on the ground, decided that the great metaphorical bell had rung, and went about getting a flat-screen TV. All bets are off when the godly start floating up into the clouds.

    I gather from reviews of the "Left Behind" book series - I haven't actually read it - that there's quite a good deal of time between the Rapture and the final convulsion on the plains of Armageddon, so I guess there will still be TV. Also, some pretty nice vacant houses here and there.

    It didn't happen, or if it did, it was the end-times equivalent of a 3.4 earthquake. Most people didn't feel it at all; a few did; nothing catastrophic happened. And yet believers can say that they're just this much closer to the kingdom of heaven, and the next Rapture will surely just shake our pants off.

    (I have wondered, and I suppose you have too, what happens if the Rapture comes and certain people who've been praying for same get left behind. Do they spend their remaining days wondering what they did wrong, or, worse, knowing what they did wrong? Yes, it would be fun to laugh at all us nonplussed nonbelievers, but pretty soon: the hot breath of hell.)

    For that matter, we can't assume 100 percent efficiency in this matter. Look at how lousy God is at answering prayers. Every day, many sports teams lose despite fervent entreaties for divine intervention. So you might have floaters, naked people skimming along the treetops, not quite good enough for heaven but much too good for Earth, where yawning, fiery cracks may open up at any moment.

    Did you see that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have wandered into the whole end-of-the-world thing? Not that they're predicting it, you understand. But every year they are required by common sense to issue a press release saying, more or less, "It's hurricane season and here are the things you should have lying around the house in case of emergency - and in case you missed the previous 903 bulletins on the matter."

    Turns out water is a good idea, and canned food, and a battery-operated radio and flashlight, and batteries, and a first aid kit. But you know all that because of all the earthquake preparedness bulletins you've read. And you have those things right now, don't you?

    You might need a sky hook to catch those floaters.

    This time the CDC has included another category of major disaster: zombie apocalypse. It turns out that, according to the CDC, the stuff you need to prepare for a hurricane is the same stuff you need for a zombie invasion. (Of course, in a zombie invasion, it would be advisable to carry a baseball bat or tire iron at all times. The undead don't deal in nuance.)

    I suspect that all the apocalyptic talking and joking betrays some level of repressed anxiety that the world really is coming to an end, not by divine fiat or zombie triumphalism but by poorly understood changes in the Earth that appear to be bringing about more extreme weather patterns.

    Add to that the political upheavals in North Africa and the triple disaster in Japan, and it's been quite a 2011 so far. You don't have to be particularly sensitive to the vibes of the planet to sense some shift in the force. All that plus rising seawater, rising population and rising rates of starvation is creating a world that seems unsupportable. Every generation has its own apocalypse - the Civil War certainly felt like one to those around at the time - and yet we have gotten through all our upheavals by, as Thornton Wilder would say, the skin of our teeth.

    Still, this time it seems to be more global. The ties that bind us are fraying, one fears. And so we take refuge in Bible stories or elaborate jokes, and hope that, somehow, the world will stop getting worse. Clap for it, everyone.

    Did you know that atheists were offering pet-sitting services to Rapturees? Made some money on the deposits, too.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,392
    Gene that article was awesome.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,073

    the Rapture bubble

    I confess I'm a little bummed that our original thread on the May 21 prediction has been deleted (by original poster Xiao3 Meng4, who was probably just being tidy) but with 52,403 threads and counting, I'm not that bummed. All things are impermanent, even rapture predictions.
    Does Rapture have prophets - or just profiteering?
    Peter Savodnik, Bloomberg Businessweek
    Monday, August 1, 2011

    For nearly a year, nonagenarian preacher and radio personality Harold Camping of Alameda predicted the world would end May 21. Locusts would blanket the Earth and millions would die while Camping and his flock would rise up to the sky, rendezvous with Jesus, and ascend to the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Instead, May 22 happened, Camping postponed the end of the world by five months, and then suffered a debilitating stroke - leaving a huge vacuum in the Rapture market.

    The meltdown came at a propitious moment for apocalypse followers. A proliferation of earthquakes, a plague that may or may not be sweeping Brazil, the Greeks, and Kim Kardashian, among other things, may be conspiring to create a Rapture bubble.

    In addition to Camping's revised forecast - the world is definitely going to end Oct. 21 - many Rapture seekers now believe Tuesday's debt-ceiling deadline signals that the end may be very, very near.

    "If the economy goes, that'll be fertile soil for the Antichrist to take power," said Todd Strandberg of Little Rock, Ark. "Hitler came out of the Depression. A lot of us believe the Antichrist will use the same steppingstone."

    This means there are only so many days left to get rich. Strandberg, the proprietor of RaptureReady.com - the most popular Rapture-preparedness website in the world - is part of a new generation of entrepreneurs trying to take advantage of Camping's absence. Unlike Camping, the new apocalypse establishment is offering an unprecedented array of doomsday-themed literature, podcasts, survival kits, and other goods and services for navigating the end of times.
    'End of Times' guide

    Jack Van Impe, a televangelist from Troy, Mich., has developed an e-commerce business hawking educational literature such as the "Prophetic Guide to the End of Times" ($14.95) in addition to DVDs like "11:59: The Countdown" (two-discs, $34.95).

    Van Impe, who co-runs his ministry and budding apocalypse empire with his wife and fellow prophet, Rexella, is competing for market share with Costa Rica writer Tim McHyde; Alex Dodson, whose "Watchman Radio Hour" enjoys a nationwide audience; and evangelical minister and author Tim LaHaye, who has co-written 16 Judgment Day-inspired novels. According to Cheryl Kerwin, senior marketing manager at Tyndale House Publishers, LaHaye's "Left Behind" series has sold 63 million copies worldwide.

    All are facing a common problem of the Rapture business: They're making more money than they can spend before the world ends. Keith Preston, owner of Rapture Ready Consulting in Kenton, Ohio - which is completely unrelated to RaptureReady.com, he says - estimates his company grossed $380,000 in 2009 by selling products like screen savers featuring the Red Sea and a smart-phone app for $4.99 that tells you if you're in a flood zone.

    Although sales plummeted to $200,000 in 2010 - the short-lived economic uptick, Rapture sellers say, cast a pall over the sector - Rapture Ready rebounded this year. Preston is at work on an app for everyone who is not Raptured.

    "Let's say 2 million people disappear," Preston said. "You've got doctors and police officers, you have IT guys, writers and politicians. So the problem is, who's going to do whatever they were doing? You need an app for that." How he plans to sell it from heaven remains unclear.
    Tough competition

    Still, Preston is scrambling to compete with a bustling service sector that already encompasses natural-disaster-preparedness outfits, moving and storage companies, and post-apocalyptic survivalists.

    Data storage company You've Been Left Behind of Harwich, Mass., is preparing to offer a service that sends the sensitive material of its soon-to-be-Raptured clients to designated contacts and family members. James Rawles, who runs SurvivalBlog.com, says he gets 260,000 unique visitors each week.

    There's even a new genre of chick lit called Rapture Erotica. "Apocalypse Sex: Love at the End of the World" ($4.99) focuses on characters who stare down the end of days by, according to its publisher, having "the best sex of their lives."

    The Rapture economy even includes heathens. Since most Rapture prophets have traditionally declared pets barred from Heaven, insurance company Eternal Earth-Bound Pets is now offering a 10-year relocation policy. For $135, the company promises to place dogs, cats, bunnies and so forth with a loving family of atheists who have no hope of being saved.
    No refunds

    Eternal owner Bart Centre, an atheist himself, says he already has 263 clients and expects that figure to jump by 60 or 70 in 2012. He also has a strict no-refunds policy.

    "In the remotely absurd chance that the Rapture happens and you're not Raptured," Centre says, "you can keep your pet, but you don't get your money back."
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  6. #6
    I just don't see how people can follow guys like that. They do so much against Biblical teachings. The Bible says to not follow false prophets, and he's already claimed God told him the Rapture would be in 1994. So he is a false prophet. He has also enriched himself in the name of God. That's also frowned upon. And he refuses to put his money where his mouth is, like when people asked him before May 21 why wasn't he giving his things away since he himself said the Rapture was gonna happen. He let all the followers do that, but he himself didn't. I just don't get people who follow false prophets like this guy.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    really, you can't see why people follow someone like that?

    dude, you need to take a look around you and have a look at people for what they really are.

    look at yourself first, start fixing it from there. It's the ONLY way.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  8. #8
    No David, I can't fathom it.

    I'm a Christian, so I can see why they would believe alot of what I myself do in that sense. But like I said, the guy went on record and was wrong. Twice so far actually. Yet people follow him. And it's not about religion, I'm not getting into religious beliefs here. I'm questioning how they could follow that particular guy.

    And I don't need fixed. I don't follow prophets of doom, either religiously or politically or in any other way. And especially when their predictions are shown to be off.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    48,073

    What I want to know is...

    ...who is offering a post-Rapture martial arts survival course? I'd do an ezine article on that.

    Come on now all you school owners. Time has come. Cash in.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    No David, I can't fathom it.

    I'm a Christian, so I can see why they would believe alot of what I myself do in that sense. But like I said, the guy went on record and was wrong. Twice so far actually. Yet people follow him. And it's not about religion, I'm not getting into religious beliefs here. I'm questioning how they could follow that particular guy.

    And I don't need fixed. I don't follow prophets of doom, either religiously or politically or in any other way. And especially when their predictions are shown to be off.
    Uh...I don't know what to say....

    You say "I'm a Christian" then you say "I don't follow profits of doom" when in fact, you have volumes regarding doom in your religious doctrines as a Christian. Your God was violently murdered and hung up and you have mad men in the desert writing tomes about the destruction of all humanity because your god figures it's time for it all to wrap up after creating us with what Christians call original sin, then absolving it all by having us kill him in the shape of one of us followed by centuries of hilarious misinterpretation and pick and choose believing.

    Lemme put it this way, I know a lot of Christians and almost none of them can speak to what I just said without getting flustered or angry or feeling challenged or threatened by someone who just matter of fact points out how crazy their religion sounds on the very face of it and especially when compared with a lot of or most other religions which make no claim to deified humans.

    In other words, I don't think there is a lot of value in blind Christian faith or any faith for that matter. It is a shield against taking accountability and being responsible for ones own actions more often than not.

    I believe in God, but I don't try to stick God into a box that is shaped like me in order to make god convenient and easy. lol

    I even appreciate pretty much everything that is purported to have been taught by Jesus. It's good stuff.

    But the religion of it is seriously faulted, broken and needs huge revision and expulsion of all the hold over cult practices that have zero to do with what is written in the scriptures.

    Christianity can repair itself and move forward. It has to slap it's churches in line, take power from the pope as it was never granted to him, or Rome. It was in fact Rome that stole Christianity from the first Christians and turned it into the veritable freak show and willful ignorance festival that it has become.

    A vast sea of time makes any of it believable? really?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    22,250
    The last example of Christian apocolyptic writing was John of Patmos and that was close to 2000 years ago.
    Beyond that, what we have is the belief that fear somehow brings people to a God that asks that they come only out of love.
    The kingdom of God began with Christ's resurrection, at least the 1st century Christians that witnessed it and wrote about it believed that.
    We we choose to believe, here and now, has very little to do with them or the bible, NT or OT.

    There have been NO prophets after Christ and there will be none.
    All that needs to be said and written, HAS been said and written.

    If people choose to follow these "prophets of doom" they are NOT following ANY christian tradition left be Christ or his apostles.

    Christ warned us of a coming judgment that NO MAN except God knows when it will come.

    The apostles warned that, with Christ resurrection, the Kingdom of God had begun and it falls on US to to fix the mess we make, we can only do that, however, with "God on our side".
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  12. #12
    I'm not sure I'm following the moral dilemma between predicting the end of the world and predicting the date of it. Just because Jesus didn't have Outlook doesn't mean I don't.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    Truth frequently gets sacrificed on the altar of conviction.

    I prefer a personal relationship with God.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,900
    I actually know a couple who were freaking about it before May 21st. This same couple had also been True Believers of this Camping guy back in 1994, albeit in a far more panicked manner than this last time. I'm pretty sure they'll be trying to tell us to listen to his radio show again as October approaches.

    None of us who knows them can understand why they would give Camping any credibility at all, but esp. after his first big fail. Maybe because he's old, so they probably think he's so wise and wouldn't lie at his age. I believe Camping is a sociopath who preys on people's fears and manipulates them to do his bidding, and has been doing so for a good chunk (all?) of his life. He's gotten rich off his die-hard believers, and I'm sure he gets off on the power his followers give to him.

    There's lots of people who assume that when it's their time, it'll be the Apocalypse. When, in fact, the vast majority will pass away in a hospital or, if they're lucky, quietly at home. Some will go in accidents, crimes, suicides, etc. Meanwhile, the world goes on. But gullible people want to feel like they're special, and their end is the world's end.

    People can waste their lives being afraid of some Apocalypse and everything else, which isn't living; or you can choose to grow up and contribute something positive to the world, even if in a small way. Behaving like a 'fraidy-cat your whole life does good for no one, except for scam artists like Camping. We're all going to 'move on' one day, anyway.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    ...who is offering a post-Rapture martial arts survival course? I'd do an ezine article on that.

    Come on now all you school owners. Time has come. Cash in.
    It wouldn't be economically viable. Not enough prospective students left.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •