October 21, 2011: Rapture Redux

[Taixuquan99]

So, Mohammed isn't a prophet?

Just playing Devil's advocate here.

[Lee Chiang Po]

So, Mohammed isn't a prophet?

Just playing Devil's advocate here.

He was not a prophet. He claimed to be, but he was actually the great antichrist. He was, then was not, and then he is again. He rules over almost half the worlds population even today, and look at what is happening.
The rapture is not a part of any bible. It came into the church in the late
1800's, but is not within the bible as such. It speaks of the 144 thousand. They will be taken up, and they will consist of men, unbefiled by woman. What does that tell you? How many here will meet the criteria of rapture? I don't know anyone. Certainly not me. It could have happened as he predicted. How many missing persons reports have been filed around the world? Probably many more than 144 thousand, and yet how many of these people do we know personally? Certainly by the requirements they would be scattered far and wide.
Life and the world as we have known it will soon pass. Brought on by mans need to rule, and by his religeous faiths. We will all pass into the abyss of eternity, from which we came. Only we will never, ever come back again. And because so many can not deal with that, they have this need of everlasting life.
I used to subscribe to the christian faith, but then one day I became self aware. Suddenly I could see that it was nothing more than my weakness and need for an escape from death. Once I realized that there is no escape and none of us will suffer the fires of hell, but will pass into oblivion forever, it took a huge weight off my shoulders. I do not grieve for the dead, and want no one to grieve my passing.

[Taixuquan99]

The rapture is not a part of any bible. It came into the church in the late
1800's, but is not within the bible as such. It speaks of the 144 thousand. They will be taken up, and they will consist of men, unbefiled by woman.

Indeed, who is unbefuddled by woman?

[Lee Chiang Po]

Indeed, who is unbefuddled by woman?

144 thousand devoutly ****sexual men? That's a really big order.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Death by stoning.

also, this appears to be an early remedy for everything.

I think cultural context is required. Should probably have a sh1tload of foot notes at this point....

One of the hardest things for any christian ( or modern Jew) to reconcile are some of the very strange ( to us) laws in Leviticus, Deutronmy and so forth.
There are over 600 laws in the Jewish Torah/Penateuch and not many of them makes sense to US.
Of course they were not written for/to US but to Hebrews 4000 years ago.
Context is, indeed, everything.
Many of those Laws were "causal" ( IF a man does this...) and as such they were "accomodating" of the times and of the people they were directed too.
And while many believe that ALL were given by God directly, I and many others, have doubts about that.
Christ himself said, in regards to divorce, that MOSES gave the Israelites such a Law and that it wasn't always that way.
The admonishing of the prophet Jeremiah ( Jeremiah 8:8) that the scribes had altered the Laws of God should also makes us weary of SOME that was written.

[sanjuro_ronin]

He was not a prophet. He claimed to be, but he was actually the great antichrist. He was, then was not, and then he is again. He rules over almost half the worlds population even today, and look at what is happening.
The rapture is not a part of any bible. It came into the church in the late
1800's, but is not within the bible as such. It speaks of the 144 thousand. They will be taken up, and they will consist of men, unbefiled by woman. What does that tell you? How many here will meet the criteria of rapture? I don't know anyone. Certainly not me. It could have happened as he predicted. How many missing persons reports have been filed around the world? Probably many more than 144 thousand, and yet how many of these people do we know personally? Certainly by the requirements they would be scattered far and wide.
Life and the world as we have known it will soon pass. Brought on by mans need to rule, and by his religeous faiths. We will all pass into the abyss of eternity, from which we came. Only we will never, ever come back again. And because so many can not deal with that, they have this need of everlasting life.
I used to subscribe to the christian faith, but then one day I became self aware. Suddenly I could see that it was nothing more than my weakness and need for an escape from death. Once I realized that there is no escape and none of us will suffer the fires of hell, but will pass into oblivion forever, it took a huge weight off my shoulders. I do not grieve for the dead, and want no one to grieve my passing.

The 12k from the 12 tribes is a very typical "military host" in Hebrew apocolyptic writing.
Whenever a "holy war" was to be fought, a certain number would be chosen of "undefiled males" to be "holy warriors" for YHWH.
John of Patmos was just following typical genre writing.
The number, like the names of the tribes, are not to be taken as literal AND concrete.

[David Jamieson]

It's not just Leviticus.

Jesus himself states quite clearly he is there to uphold the laws to the letter. That includes what is written in leviticus.

I know of many people who are tolerant of ****sexuality, but not accepting of it. they see it is backwards, sinful and contrary to the good of society and contributing to the downfall of society.

tolerance doesn't mean you like it, or accept it. It just means that you'll put up with it.

Christianity is within it's boundaries and doctrine to reject ****sexuality outright and as well to reject pre-marital sexual relations etc as handed down as law to be abided by.

Nowadays, pick and choose religiosity leaves those things behind.

My major point of contention is this: "Organized and institutionalized religion is not sustainable". This is because there is always a need for cultural context and the major religions are falling way out of cultural context and in many cases simple relevance is no longer there. Cultural activities of eons ago don't cut it anymore.

Also, the rejection of the prophet Mohammed is ludicrous and done out of spite. Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all from the same people and their ideas of what god is and what god wants. When "christians" outright reject the beliefs of millions, how does that fit with the teachings of Jesus? It doesn't.

To call Muslims or Islam or Mohammed the anti-christ is the freaking height of ignorance by the way and clearly demonstrative of a failure to actually look at that faith where you will find direct correlation to the other two related faiths.


Interesting times we live in....

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's not just Leviticus.

Jesus himself states quite clearly he is there to uphold the laws to the letter. That includes what is written in leviticus.

I know of many people who are tolerant of ****sexuality, but not accepting of it. they see it is backwards, sinful and contrary to the good of society and contributing to the downfall of society.

tolerance doesn't mean you like it, or accept it. It just means that you'll put up with it.

Christianity is within it's boundaries and doctrine to reject ****sexuality outright and as well to reject pre-marital sexual relations etc as handed down as law to be abided by.

Nowadays, pick and choose religiosity leaves those things behind.

My major point of contention is this: "Organized and institutionalized religion is not sustainable". This is because there is always a need for cultural context and the major religions are falling way out of cultural context and in many cases simple relevance is no longer there. Cultural activities of eons ago don't cut it anymore.

Also, the rejection of the prophet Mohammed is ludicrous and done out of spite. Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all from the same people and their ideas of what god is and what god wants. When "christians" outright reject the beliefs of millions, how does that fit with the teachings of Jesus? It doesn't.

To call Muslims or Islam or Mohammed the anti-christ is the freaking height of ignorance by the way and clearly demonstrative of a failure to actually look at that faith where you will find direct correlation to the other two related faiths.


Interesting times we live in....

Jesus came to fulfill the law, once that was fulfilled, a new convenat was established.
We have record of Jesus "over ruling" thing like dietary restrictions, sabbath laws, stoning laws and later the apostles over ruling even circumcision.
Doctrines has always been man-made, whether men under divine inspiration or not.
Laws made for and direct to a nomadic desert tribe 4000years ago were just that, laws made for the Hebrews 4000 years ago and must b e taken under that context and that time frame.
They were not "set in stone", unlike the original directly given by God and they could be and were modified as needed.

Any organized religion can establish any doctrine they choose, it is up the the followers of said religion to decide what to do about them.

[GeneChing]

How does this guy ever get people to donate to him?

Harold Camping, rapture prophet, hedges new bet
Justin Berton, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, October 20, 2011

Harold Camping, who predicted the world would end May 21, now thinks Friday looks likely.

OAKLAND -- This time, Harold Camping sounds like a man who has suffered the whisper of self-doubt.

The Oakland minister's latest prediction of the end of the world - which he's set for Friday - is couched among words like "probably" and "maybe," a far cry from the carved-in-stone certitude he projected onto his infamous May 21 forecast.

"I do believe we're getting very near the very end," Camping, 90, said during a podcast recorded earlier this month and posted on his Family Radio website. "Oct. 21, that's coming very shortly, that looks like it will be, at this point, it will be the final end of everything."

After his last apocalyptic prediction failed to materialize, Camping said he was "flabbergasted" and was reconsidering his calculations.

"We've learned that there's a lot of things we didn't have quite right," he acknowledged during the podcast.

A June 9 stroke kept Camping hospitalized until early September, but he's since returned to the airwaves. He now characterizes May 21 as a "tremendous event" that unleashed a spiritual judgment day, just not the material one that he expected.

Tom Evans, a longtime Family Radio employee who believed he would ascend to heaven May 21, declined to comment on Camping's latest end-of-times prediction.

Evans also serves as a liaison to the media on Camping's behalf and said the minister was not available for interviews.

"We said all we were going to say after May 21," Evans said. "There's nothing more or new to say now."

On recently recorded podcasts, Camping hedged his Oct. 21 prediction - "Probably there will be no pain suffered by anyone because of their rebellion against God" - but he maintained that, ultimately, the end is nigh.

"I really am beginning to think as I've restudied these matters that there's going to be no big display of any kind," Camping said. "The end is going to come very, very quietly.

[sanjuro_ronin]

One has to wonder why an eternal being outside time as we know it, would be preoccupied with time as we know it.
You'd think that by now these "end of timers" would wake up and smell the river.

[Lucas]

with so many sheeple out there, someone has to herd their bank accounts.

[sanjuro_ronin]

A fool and his money are soon parted...

[David Jamieson]

There is certainly no shortage of fools to be counted when it comes to those who are waiting for the world to end. Why anyone thinks that's a good thing is beyond me. lol

[Brule]

David, i have a piece of swamp land for sale....you interested?

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is certainly no shortage of fools to be counted when it comes to those who are waiting for the world to end. Why anyone thinks that's a good thing is beyond me. lol

I call it the lazy ******* and ungrateful ass syndrome.
These people want God to fix all their problems, all the crap we did to this world, they want God to fix.
Even though Genesis makes it clear that we are responsible for this world ( stewards of creation), they want God to fix everything and, of course, make THEM the "kings" along with Christ.