Do Most Fights Go to the Ground? (Research conducted)

[anerlich]

You could make an argument about the fact that BJJ generally doesn't allow heel hooks, external figure-4 toe holds, and neck cranks, though. However, many BJJ guys also train and compete no-gi, which does allow those things.

figure 4 toe holds and other twisting footlocks are allowed at brown and black belt level in some gi competitions - e.g. one I refereed at on the weekend. Heel hooks, neck cranks and a few other techniques are disallowed at all levels.

Similar reasoning as to why attacks to the eyes and throat aren't allowed in striking competition.

Most BJJ students will learn how to apply such "forbidden" locks at some stage of their career, also how to avoid, counter or escape them.

[k gledhill]

figure 4 toe holds and other twisting footlocks are allowed at brown and black belt level in some gi competitions - e.g. one I refereed at on the weekend. Heel hooks, neck cranks and a few other techniques are disallowed at all levels.

Similar reasoning as to why attacks to the eyes and throat aren't allowed in striking competition.

Most BJJ students will learn how to apply such "forbidden" locks at some stage of their career, also how to avoid, counter or escape them.

Its interesting to see the ' forbidden ' locks used to set up other followup ...the Grovit!
Yeah eyes, when a Guy gets a thumb by accident it can be seen why.

[faxiapreta]

figure 4 toe holds and other twisting footlocks are allowed at brown and black belt level in some gi competitions - e.g. one I refereed at on the weekend. Heel hooks, neck cranks and a few other techniques are disallowed at all levels.

Externally rotated foot locks are illegal in BJJ tourneys at all levels.

Similar reasoning as to why attacks to the eyes and throat aren't allowed in striking competition.

Not the same at all. Heel hooks, externally rotated foot locks, and neck cranks are all legal in no-gi competitions.

Most BJJ students will learn how to apply such "forbidden" locks at some stage of their career, also how to avoid, counter or escape them.

They never really learn them unless they spar/compete with them. Simply learning them with a compliant partner is no more effective for learning than the techniques learned by the TMA guy who only practices drills with compliant partners.

[Phil Redmond]

. . Many guys are shot with their own piece in grappling exchanges, etc...

That's why I teach LI that my gun can become our gun. btw, NY has nothing on places where I've lived like CT and Michigan where ANYONE with no felonies can get a concealed weapons permit. They are way harder for the average citizen to get in NYC. I was a store owner in NYC and had to jump through hoops.

[k gledhill]

That's why I teach LI that my gun can become our gun. btw, NY has nothing on places where I've lived like CT and Michigan where ANYONE with no felonies can get a concealed weapons permit. They are way harder for the average citizen to get in NYC. I was a store owner in NYC and had to jump through hoops.

Yeah you have to prove you carry $25,000 in NYC.
In the UK it was easy as long as you where carrying from home gun safe to shooting range, you could carry concealed but unloaded, ammunition separate.

[Phil Redmond]

Yeah you have to prove you carry $25,000 in NYC.
In the UK it was easy as long as you where carrying from home gun safe to shooting range, you could carry concealed but unloaded, ammunition separate.

It was less than $25,000 when I had my store in Brooklyn.

[k gledhill]

It was less than $25,000 when I had my store in Brooklyn.

Yeah not sure exact $ now....high! Hah

[wolf3001]

I also think the numbers are a bit skewed because although someone may end up on the ground, does not mean that the fight is taken there. For instance, if a fight ends in a ko, obviously the fighter who was ko'ed ends up on the ground. Most instances a ko means the end of the fight. (MOST not all, of course there are exceptions and Im talking mostly in terms of a street fight)

Did the find end up on the ground? Yes. Does that make it a ground fight? No.

I can't count how many times someone was knocked down in a fight and was got back up before the other person was able to capitalize. Did the fight go to the ground in those instances, yes. Was it a ground fight? No.

The last actual fight I was in I was thrown through a door. Got back up and nailed the guy with a roundhouse to his lower ribs and again with a punch to the face. We exchanged blows and he then knocked me down he was short but out weighed me. I had hold of his arm as I fell and it seemed to me like he was going to try and pound me but I brought my foot up and was getting lined up for a groin shot when he backed off and quit his attack. I then left I didn't know at the time but I fractured his cheek and his rib. I got back up and was about to go after him but he wasn't attacking so I just left.

[mvbrown21]

That's why I teach LI that my gun can become our gun. btw, NY has nothing on places where I've lived like CT and Michigan where ANYONE with no felonies can get a concealed weapons permit. They are way harder for the average citizen to get in NYC. I was a store owner in NYC and had to jump through hoops.

Come down to Arizona sometime. Specifically Tucson. It really is the last frontier! The most laxed handgun laws in the country. You can take a gun just about anywhere including state buildings. They have to have metal detectors in order to deny your right. You can even take guns into bars unless the owner puts a sign up. Concealed weapons permits for everyone too with no class required

And we have an official state gun now, just passed. The Colt Single Action Army Revolver!

[anerlich]

Externally rotated foot locks are illegal in BJJ tourneys at all levels.

You're right - I missed the 'external' in your earlier post.

They never really learn them unless they spar/compete with them.

Sure. You might make an agreement to spar with them. My instructor slapped a heel hook on me during sparring for my blue belt grading to see if I knew how to escape (I did, though I am glad he wasn't going 100%). In the middle of a round when he made me tap multiple times, I did manage to sub a black belt once with a figure 4 footlock.

[k gledhill]

You're right - I missed the 'external' in your earlier post.



Sure. You might make an agreement to spar with them. My instructor slapped a heel hook on me during sparring for my blue belt grading to see if I knew how to escape (I did, though I am glad he wasn't going 100%). In the middle of a round when he made me tap multiple times, I did manage to sub a black belt once with a figure 4 footlock.

Why is it illegal? External ...

[k gledhill]

Come down to Arizona sometime. Specifically Tucson. It really is the last frontier! The most laxed handgun laws in the country. You can take a gun just about anywhere including state buildings. They have to have metal detectors in order to deny your right. You can even take guns into bars unless the owner puts a sign up. Concealed weapons permits for everyone too with no class required

And we have an official state gun now, just passed. The Colt Single Action Army Revolver!

I was there doing a seminar and was coming from the UK., land of guns? Hah.
It was eye opening, we also went to other west coast schools. At an after seminar dinner in San Fran I was sitting with 8 guys talking and the subject went to guns and how everyone carried.
Sure enough 3-4 of the guys where carrying! Hah

I took up shooting in London at clubs. Entering outdoor competitions for shooting practical pistol 9 mm - 38/357 mag
VT actually helped with isosceles grips. Our shuffle isn't far off UK military or swat duckwalk....pivoting and aligning etc....
One thing is not to use ygkym a lead leg is better and solid with a magnum round hah!

[faxiapreta]

Why is it illegal? External ...

If the lock is applied too hard or too fast it can tear the medial collateral ligament in the knee and/or cause an extra bad break of the ankle.

[Frost]

If the lock is applied too hard or too fast it can tear the medial collateral ligament in the knee and/or cause an extra bad break of the ankle.

yep one of our guys had his caeer ended by a heel hook, sprial fractured his spin and blew his knee

the problem is the time between realising you are in trouble and the break actually happening is so small its really dangerous

Strange in no gi its allowed more