Do Most Fights Go to the Ground? (Research conducted)

**faxiapreta** · 05-26-2011, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by m1k3

Quoted for truth!

Lets not turn this into some sort of WC/VT/VC/WT lineage war.

Not only are the techniques the same. The mistakes that we all make, as well as the counters used against us are also the same. Competitive grapplers also know what these are because we've all made those mistakes and had the counters applied to us.

**m1k3** · 05-26-2011, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by faxiapreta

Not only are the techniques the same. The mistakes that we all make, as well as the counters used against us are also the same. Competitive grapplers also know what these are because we've all made those mistakes and had the counters applied to us.

This is also why it is so hard to answer a question like how do you set up a single let take down. So much depends on what your opponent is doing and often you are trying to set up more that one thing at a time and looking for whatever opening he happens to give you.

That is why I find the "if he does A I'll do B" comments so stupid. It's not a static drill and he might be doing A just to get you to do B because he's ready for it.

Arrrrrrgh.

**Dragonzbane76** · 05-26-2011, 11:34 AM

western wrestling teaches to put the head to the side from my experience, not in the belly. When driving forward you use the neck muscles to drive to an angle on the double leg. never put the head down. keep your spine at a slight vertical incline so the head does not lean down. Seen many a people put the head down and end in a guillotine.

Why do people generally think that a "football" tackle is the shot? it's not, the set up for it is not brute streng. Has a lot of momentum but still not a diving lunge into someone.

**YouKnowWho** · 05-26-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by faxiapreta

There is no "Chinese" setup for the single.

This is the most basic Chinese wrestling single leg set up.

- use toe push kick to build a leg contact (you know where your opponent's leg is),
- use back fist to build an arm contact (you know where your opponent's arm is),
- push your opponent's leading arm to jam his back arm (disable his both arms function), and
- enter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzEnT5pKvik

**faxiapreta** · 05-26-2011, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

This is the most basic Chinese wrestling single leg. There is some different from the western wrestling approach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzEnT5pKvik

And there are a variety of reasons you will rarely or never see that type of technique being pulled off successfully.

**YouKnowWho** · 05-26-2011, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by faxiapreta

And there are a variety of reasons you will rarely or never see that type of technique being pulled off successfully.

This is only the beginner level training. It works very well against "beginners". There are many other set up as well (such as 45 degree, 135 degree, ...).

**Vajramusti** · 05-26-2011, 01:41 PM

Sooooo- the study shows that if we use You Tube as the data base-then

So, there you have it; an exploratory study to try to find out if 90 to 95 percent of fights end up on the ground. The results offered in this study indicate that 90 to 95 percent is too high of a percentage rate. It is probably closer to 42% where both fighters hit the ground and 72% where at least one fighter ends up on the ground.

Joy chaudhuri

**faxiapreta** · 05-26-2011, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Vajramusti

Sooooo- the study shows that if we use You Tube as the data base-then

So, there you have it; an exploratory study to try to find out if 90 to 95 percent of fights end up on the ground. The results offered in this study indicate that 90 to 95 percent is too high of a percentage rate. It is probably closer to 42% where both fighters hit the ground and 72% where at least one fighter ends up on the ground.

Joy chaudhuri

The percentage doesn't matter. Imparting the fact that being on the ground and/or grappling was often an inevitable part of fighting was a great service to many people.

**Vajramusti** · 05-26-2011, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by faxiapreta

The percentage doesn't matter. Imparting the fact that being on the ground and/or grappling was often an inevitable part of fighting was a great service to many people.

-------------------------------------------------------

Surely.

**Vajramusti** · 05-26-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by faxiapreta

The percentage doesn't matter. Imparting the fact that being on the ground and/or grappling was often an inevitable part of fighting was a great service to many people.

-------------------------------------------------------

Surely.

If you don't know how to prevent a a takedpwn the risks go up.

jc

**faxiapreta** · 05-26-2011, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Vajramusti

-------------------------------------------------------

Surely.

If you don't know how to prevent a a takedpwn the risks go up.

jc

Surely.

But the risks are lower for someone who can do takedown prevention, and also knows what to do on the ground.

**anerlich** · 05-26-2011, 03:16 PM

Things may be different in North America where there is a strong wrestling culture, but in other Western countries you are much more likely to find Rugby players. In Australia just about every male will have played at least a few games of rugby at school, and it is a very popular club sport as well.

Hence the prevalence of people prepared to use rugby style tackles.

I've been taught that you can successfully palm the head of a person tackling with the head low, but it's pushing the head offline and moving away, not striking. My BJJ/MMA instructor's go-to self defense move - underhook and head control - you can strike, knee, or throw from here. If the guy is rushing in with a head low, get an underhook, circle step off line, push his head down, and you can throw him a distance proportional to the speed of his rush (that's even an application of a section of TWC's CK).

Trying to hit a rushing opponent to stun or KO seems to me to rely on luck a bit much.

And if all of that fails, develop a good, effective sprawl. And of that fails, learn to protect the head and some basic pin escapes.

**HumbleWCGuy** · 05-26-2011, 03:33 PM

I have been in about 15 ish street altercations and none have gone to the ground if that helps. However, it's better to be prepared and train at least some grappling. The best striker in the world with no grappling is a tackling dummy to any HS wrestler with a chin.

**Dragonzbane76** · 05-26-2011, 06:53 PM

The best striker in the world with no grappling is a tackling dummy to any HS wrestler with a chin.

truth as written.

**Frost** · 05-27-2011, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I have dealed with many western wrestlers in the past (most of them are from the Ohio State University wrestling team). Since both "single leg" and "double legs" exist in both Chinese wrestling, and western wrestling, the set up may be different, but the principle and risk factor are the same.

Would you mind to share your experience on "how to set up a single leg by using the western wrestling"? It may be fun to compare the difference.

Sure as already said 2 on 1, touch and go, arm drags, underhook with head control, switch from a double to a single against the fence……they are standard across all wrestling nothing secret about them

Its comments like head down can be better than head up and a double leg should have the head in the centre that makes me wonder about the level of no gi wrestling you have been exposed to because head up on the out side is what every single wrestling coach, no gi grappling coach and even BJJ coach I have ever talked to or trained with has taught

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