Religion

[JamesC]

Have you read any of LaVey's stuff? lol I'm pretty sure you'd understand how someone can have a problem with those views because they advocate doing harm to others as part of their ritual and worship practices.

It makes perfect sense to reject the views of others that involve the need to do harm to others or the innocent. I am repulsed by those who wilfully harm others for no defensible reason.

I agree with you there.

I was being much more general in my statement. I.E. Major world religions.

I don't advocate harming innocents or anything of the like.

[Lucas]

ok now this is going to be really stupid sounding i think to most people but why do a lot of the christians (i assume they are christians maybe not ) 'bless me' or tell me they are 'blessed'? i honestly dont get it. i just want to know what thats all about. is that from a certain type of christianity?

sorry if i disrespect anyone with that question.

just so you know as they come up i'll put all my stupid questions here, as long as people respond i'll keep being stupid.

[BJJ-Blue]

Westboro mean anything to you?

I know who they are. And no Baptist church accepts them. As you know, the Baptist religion is not one where every church/pastor has to be approved by a Pope, council, etc. Anyone can call themselves a Baptist. And Phelps is not calling for violence. He is celebrating deaths, yes, but not calling for his followers to actually kill anyone. And Phelps doesn't use violence to achieve his goals, he uses the court system.

The Spanish Armada had NOTHING to do with religion

Yes it did. The Catholic nation of Spain was trying to conquer the Protestant nation of England in the name of religion. The Catholic Church did not recognize Elizabeth I as the rightful monarch of England and they were furious she basically banned saying Mass. Also England supported the Protestants in the Netherlands who were hostile to Spain. Phillip II, the spanish king, openly championed Catholocism and that religion greatly influenced his policies.

Spain also murdered and enslaved the natives of the Americas in the name of the Catholic religion.

[goju]

Spain also murdered and enslaved the natives of the Americas in the name of the Catholic religion.

Actually they did it in the name of gold: Religion was merely used as an excuse to do it.

[JamesC]

ok now this is going to be really stupid sounding i think to most people but why do a lot of the christians (i assume they are christians maybe not ) 'bless me' or tell me they are 'blessed'? i honestly dont get it. i just want to know what thats all about. is that from a certain type of christianity?

sorry if i disrespect anyone with that question.

just so you know as they come up i'll put all my stupid questions here, as long as people respond i'll keep being stupid.

It just depends really.

Generally it is only meant with good intentions. Kind of like saying, "I wish you the best."

However, it does tend to make people uncomfortable, especially if they aren't Christians themselves. Just take it as a compliment as that's what it is most of the time.

I have heard older people use it frequently right after insulting someone though. Sometimes they think that if they add that little "God Bless Her" it makes it less offensive. For example, "She's as dumb as a bag of hammer, God Bless her." It's still rude, lol. Usually funny though...

[JamesC]

Also, feel free to ask questions Lucas. There's no such thing as a stupid question. We can't know some things unless we ask.

[JamesC]

Lucas, I just saw that there is an actual wikipedia entry for your question as well. Had some interesting stuff in it that I never knew!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_you

[BJJ-Blue]

Actually they did it in the name of gold: Religion was merely used as an excuse to do it.

The Catholic Church has a history of greed. They used to sell "indulgences" after all. I also believe that's why they force priests to be celibate and not marry. Who do you think most of them will their possessions and money to when they die? It's quite odd they tell the rank-and-file Catholics to not use birth control, yet demand the ones preaching/teaching the religion have no offspring.

[Lucas]

oh sweet im going to read that. thanks! ya it usually seems like a nice thing. or people say it after you sneeze sometimes.

[David Jamieson]

ok now this is going to be really stupid sounding i think to most people but why do a lot of the christians (i assume they are christians maybe not ) 'bless me' or tell me they are 'blessed'? i honestly dont get it. i just want to know what thats all about. is that from a certain type of christianity?

sorry if i disrespect anyone with that question.

just so you know as they come up i'll put all my stupid questions here, as long as people respond i'll keep being stupid.

Christianity has an evangeliical aspect to it. "Spread the good news!".

I would think that people who make their belief known through this action are in fact practicing a little bit of evangelism.

And yes, the pope would sell blessings more or less at one time. You could essentially buy your way out of sinning. lol medieval people weren't all together brilliant in many ways.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes it did. The Catholic nation of Spain was trying to conquer the Protestant nation of England in the name of religion. The Catholic Church did not recognize Elizabeth I as the rightful monarch of England and they were furious she basically banned saying Mass. Also England supported the Protestants in the Netherlands who were hostile to Spain. Phillip II, the spanish king, openly championed Catholocism and that religion greatly influenced his policies.

Spain also murdered and enslaved the natives of the Americas in the name of the Catholic religion.

It had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Spanish expansionisim and imperialism.
Don't forget that Spain occupied Portugal, also a Catholic country.
The Netherlands were a "vassal" state that, according to Spain, were rebelling.
Phillip used religion as an excuse, nothing more.
It was just one of the many cases of religion being used as an excuse and why?
The RC church in spain had serious coin and was stupid enough to use it to further it's influence and to get the "OK" from the Pope, the excuse of religion was used, as usual.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The Catholic Church has a history of greed. They used to sell "indulgences" after all. I also believe that's why they force priests to be celibate and not marry. Who do you think most of them will their possessions and money to when they die? It's quite odd they tell the rank-and-file Catholics to not use birth control, yet demand the ones preaching/teaching the religion have no offspring.

Quite correct, the RCC was and still is badly in need of reform.

[sanjuro_ronin]

ok now this is going to be really stupid sounding i think to most people but why do a lot of the christians (i assume they are christians maybe not ) 'bless me' or tell me they are 'blessed'? i honestly dont get it. i just want to know what thats all about. is that from a certain type of christianity?

sorry if i disrespect anyone with that question.

just so you know as they come up i'll put all my stupid questions here, as long as people respond i'll keep being stupid.

To be blessed is to be under God's divine grace ( in general) and to be thankful for God's many gifts to Us and Other, through Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Grace is God's unconditonal love for us, an unmerited gift.
Much like parents give their unconditonal love for their children.
Grace is God not loving you anymore than he does because he loves you absolutely.
There is nothing you can do or have to do, to earn that Grace, it is given freely to you through Christ.
Hence we are blessed.

[KC Elbows]

All religions stem from the same source ( well, almost all) and they are simply different expressions of that source ( that source being God).

Um, nowhere in most religions is any such connection made, aside from the judeo-Christian ones. Simply renaming a force in another religion that does not require belief in the zombie child "God" to make it synonymous with the Christian one that does is pretty frail argumentation.

Most religions will have very similar cores ( golden rule for example).

The Golden Rule predates Christianity(not that you don't know this), and is a moral dictum, not religious in content, but used in religion and outside of it. It's presence does prove a common human source, but not a common theological or religious source. Hell, Hobbes' Leviathan is, in one sense, an atheist view of the need for such an approach to have a functioning society, not a proof of God as a common source of that idea.

The only religions that are wrong are religions that advocate hate and violence, indifference and no compassion.

There is no religion that somewhere in sacred texts (that its followers would never dare expunge) doesn't do exactly this, to outsiders at the very least. This is not the fault of religion: Confucianism, and not just the state system of it, has plenty of quotes about what should be done to so and so for going against the grain, even quotes ascribed to Confucius. The difference is that philosophies and groups that do this don't have the recourse of saying "because Zeus said so", and so their arguments tend to disappear over time as the crux of philosophical argument changes, while religions tend to moderate as their arguments on reality become destroyed and they enter the shifting sand of "it's not all literal," but they are always stuck with so-called sacred texts that are hard to reconcile without bringing into question their sacredness.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Um, nowhere in most religions is any such connection made, aside from the judeo-Christian ones. Simply renaming a force in another religion that does not require belief in the zombie child "God" to make it synonymous with the Christian one that does is pretty frail argumentation.



The Golden Rule predates Christianity(not that you don't know this), and is a moral dictum, not religious in content, but used in religion and outside of it. It's presence does prove a common human source, but not a common theological or religious source. Hell, Hobbes' Leviathan is, in one sense, an atheist view of the need for such an approach to have a functioning society, not a proof of God as a common source of that idea.



There is no religion that somewhere in sacred texts (that its followers would never dare expunge) doesn't do exactly this, to outsiders at the very least. This is not the fault of religion: Confucianism, and not just the state system of it, has plenty of quotes about what should be done to so and so for going against the grain, even quotes ascribed to Confucius. The difference is that philosophies and groups that do this don't have the recourse of saying "because Zeus said so", and so their arguments tend to disappear over time as the crux of philosophical argument changes, while religions tend to moderate as their arguments on reality become destroyed and they enter the shifting sand of "it's not all literal," but they are always stuck with so-called sacred texts that are hard to reconcile without bringing into question their sacredness.

KC, the thread started asked our views on religion, not the "offical view of religion A about religion B".


As for the Golden Rule, yes it predates Christianity and most other religions ( it is but a starting point in Christianity like I mentioned), but since religion and culture/society goes hand-in-hand and it is almost impossible to state which came first, it is logical to conclude that the "golden rule" is a by-product of religion.