Internal martial arts: a fiction?

[Crosshandz]

I have been practicing Kung fu on and off for a number of years. In that time I have had the honour of taking classes from some pretty good martial artists and I am increasingly persuaded that the paradigm "internal" martial arts is a fiction.

After all these years observing martial arts I find it difficult to explain how Hung Gar is "external" and Xingyi is "internal", for example. As far as I can see barring some differences in method of power development and some in some methods of power exertion there isn't a paper width of difference between "internal" and "external" in practice. Someone hitting you with Taiji short power, to me, seems very similar to someone hitting you with Southern Mantis short power.

Yet I have witnessed heated arguments between "internal" and "external" stylists about the wrong power/energy/body method being used in techniques so I am curious to know what is it I am missing if anything?

[bawang]

the term internal is a modern invention

[faxiapreta]

No difference.

[bawang]

the real internal boxing was a southern kung fu style. the founder learned shaolin kung fu, then converted to taoism and there was a lot of politics
inner boxing had two forms: six road boxing which had only six techniques, and ten pieces which had 10 techniques.

[YouKnowWho]

At the end of the Ming dynasty, some none CMA scholar 黄藜洲(Huang Li Zhou) invented this word "internal" so we can argue for the next 1,000 years.

[Crosshandz]

The replies thus far seem to indicate that my senses do not deceive me. That being the case why hasn't the Chinese martial arts community attempted a wholesale rebrand and ditched this internal/external thing?

[bawang]

at the end of the ming dynasty 400 years ago cold weapons became increasingly obsolete. the ming army began to modernize and transition to firearms. in order to survive martial arts began to msytify and romantisize itself.

[faxiapreta]

The replies thus far seem to indicate that my senses do not deceive me. That being the case why hasn't the Chinese martial arts community attempted a wholesale rebrand and ditched this internal/external thing?

Because they would lose a whole market segment. There will always be a part of the population who wants the "special secret" or something they think will give them the edge compared to how other people develop their abilities.

[bawang]

There will always be a part of the population who wants the "special secret" or something they think will give them the edge compared to how other people develop their abilities.

they are getting old and dying.

[YouKnowWho]

There are only 2 kind of people who live on this planet, those who train "internal", and those who wish they train "internal". (I steal this line from the movie, "My Big Fat Greek Wedding").

If you always use terms such as, "internal power", "internal structure", "internal alignment", "core engine", ..., it will make you to feel "superior" than others. If people don't believe in your "internal" theory, you can always tell that person that he is just not lucky enough to meet someone who can show him the "real deal".

[faxiapreta]

There are only 2 kind of people who live on this planet, those who train "internal", and thos who wish they train "internal".

If you always use terms such as, "internal power", "internal structure", "internal alignment", "core engine", ..., it will make you to feel "superior" than others. If people don't believe in your "internal opinion, you can always tell that person that he is just not luck enough to meet someone who can show him the "real deal".

People who go out and test against others in real-time competitive environments quickly learn there is no differentiation between internal and external.

[bawang]

the term "internal" was invented less than 100 years ago in the modern age

if someone tried to teach "internal" in the ancient times he would be tied up and beaten until death.

[YouKnowWho]

the term "internal" was invented less than 100 years ago in the modern age

It was invented a bit before 1644 (the beginning of the Chin synasty). It was recorded on someone's tomb stone.

[bawang]

the way it is used today is invented 100 years ago. the old inner boxing was a real style from ningbo

[Violent Designs]

basically Chinese ppl threw face and lost honor.

good game