Internal martial arts: a fiction?

[Hendrik]

internal power generation can be closely analogy to a fuel/electric power car.

it is no longer the basic car but a fuel-electric power.


With Qi involved, internal power generation system comes with two parts: 1, Qi transportation/flow and 2, Qi - physical fusion which convert qi/breathing to enhance physical.

it is a technology which has been clearly define and clearly set up the process of implementation.


However, most people or even so called internal artists has never knows it clearly. Thus, it cannot be repeat and synthesis , and thus when challenge cannot show it.


Also, it is analogy to fuel/electric power car. Fuel or electric doesnt replace Car.
Thus, Qi doesnt replace physical but enhance it. and since it is hybrid technology, experting to explain it with a common fuel car technology is not going to do the job.


Anyone who learn and practice the Qi-physical fusion process of internal art will in fact increase his/her capability by 2x over night and the physical limit no longer bound one as the sole physical training in power generation. so over time the power generation improvement will not flat out but keep rising.

That is the way female can beat big muscle male. old age can defeat young and strong.

it is a different type of paradigm. thus, similar to keep arguing everything has to be explainable as "black vinly" records doesnt make sense in a DVD technology. sure the DVD still spin but it is using light to read data instead of friction pick up mechanism.



a mechanical engineer will not know how to design an electrical system. not to mention it is hybrid era with hybrid technology. how is a simple mechanical engineer suppose to image DSP processing and signal path? it is also off the mark for a mechanical engineer to make claim electromagnetic motor is impossible. because they just dont know. also, no one claim electromagnetic motor is doing voodo levitation which violate the law of physics and nature.

[YiQuanOne]

I would not try to depend on modern science to explain the human system. Western medicine is good at repairing body plumbing, not much more. As far as the mind, I don't think they have much there at all.

Has anyone read and understood one of the books by Yang Jwing-ming called "Secrets of Wu Style".

[Hendrik]

I would not try to depend on modern science to explain the human system. Western medicine is good at repairing body plumbing, not much more. As far as the mind, I don't think they have much there at all.

Has anyone read and understood one of the books by Yang Jwing-ming called "Secrets of Wu Style".

science is good. everything has its pro and con, limitation in area of coverage.

the issue is when one get stuck in the Newtonian philosophy science and take that as the ultimate GOD that is a problem.

[taai gihk yahn]

I would not try to depend on modern science to explain the human system. Western medicine is good at repairing body plumbing, not much more. As far as the mind, I don't think they have much there at all.

Has anyone read and understood one of the books by Yang Jwing-ming called "Secrets of Wu Style".

let me ask you, what actual training do you have in "modern science" and "western medicine" for you to be able to say anything at all about them in terms of what they can explain and do? based on your magnificent lack of understanding of muscle function and physiology, I'm guessing absolutely NOTHING; instead, you spout the stupidity typical for qigong dilettantes who arrive at this air of smug superiority regarding the purported inability of so-called western science / medicine to explain so-called eastern systems, when in fact, their knowledge of either is woefully lacking;

btw, Yang Jwing-Ming didn't write much of anything - he just translated extant texts into English; and his understanding of classical Taoist Internal Alchemical practice is rather superficial; so if u r looking to him as an authority on the topic, you will come away with a rather limited perspective

[YiQuanOne]

let me ask you, what actual training do you have in "modern science" and "western medicine" for you to be able to say anything at all about them in terms of what they can explain and do? based on your magnificent lack of understanding of muscle function and physiology, I'm guessing absolutely NOTHING; instead, you spout the stupidity typical for qigong dilettantes who arrive at this air of smug superiority regarding the purported inability of so-called western science / medicine to explain so-called eastern systems, when in fact, their knowledge of either is woefully lacking;

btw, Yang Jwing-Ming didn't write much of anything - he just translated extant texts into English; and his understanding of classical Taoist Internal Alchemical practice is rather superficial; so if u r looking to him as an authority on the topic, you will come away with a rather limited perspective

Well do you understand the translation?. If you think you can explain it in modern science, I would like to here it. If you say it can't be done and won't work, I disagree, because it works for me just like described in book.

[SimonM]

Occam's Razor implies nobody needs to demonstrate to you that it can be demonstrated in a scientific paradigm. The default position is that if one entity can suitably allow for the phenomenon then it is likely that two entities are not required for the phenomenon.

In other words, the burden lies on you to adequately demonstrate that your "internal" stuff defies the extant paradigm in order to justify inclusion of a secondary paradigm to describe that class of phenomena.

[Hendrik]

Occam's Razor implies nobody needs to demonstrate to you that it can be demonstrated in a scientific paradigm. The default position is that if one entity can suitably allow for the phenomenon then it is likely that two entities are not required for the phenomenon.

In other words, the burden lies on you to adequately demonstrate that your "internal" stuff defies the extant paradigm in order to justify inclusion of a secondary paradigm to describe that class of phenomena.

These scientific stuffs is sometime very misleading since human is lot living in a lab under total control condition and one dimensional living.

internal art with Qi technology, if doing it properly will increase the power generation and strenghten one's body beyond the usual physical only training. that is a fact.

and really, who cares what the no Qi yes Qi..... arguement which wasting time? when one already get the benifit from the Qi training?

you want to get what you want or you want to prof everything but never get what you want? that is your choice.

for me, I rather learning and be a millionaire and enjoy my money in nice resort, rather then argue with/and look for acedemic theories and reasons.... etc. that is not my hobby and i leave it for those who is interested in it. I only want result ---$$$$.

[YiQuanOne]

Occam's Razor implies nobody needs to demonstrate to you that it can be demonstrated in a scientific paradigm. The default position is that if one entity can suitably allow for the phenomenon then it is likely that two entities are not required for the phenomenon.

In other words, the burden lies on you to adequately demonstrate that your "internal" stuff defies the extant paradigm in order to justify inclusion of a secondary paradigm to describe that class of phenomena.

I did not wright the book, I am saying the book is accurate and how do you describe what is going on using modern science.

We still don't know the medium for gravity, does that mean gravity can't work.

If you think that the Chi stuff does not work, why don't you go visit Sam Tam, he is in Canada with you, he will give you hands on demo.

If someone does internal demo, everyone just say it is fake anyway, because they don't see momentum, or external power movements. You have to feel it, you can't see it, that is why it is called internal.

Anyway go see Sam Tam in Canada, then you have some first hand experience

.

[Water-quan]

Sam Tam? You mean this fraud:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LArfW-RY2Bc

You poor soul - you really think that's real? I'd rather suspect that you hate him, because if someone with real fighting intent goes to see him, he'll be in serious trouble.

[YiQuanOne]

Sam Tam? You mean this fraud:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LArfW-RY2Bc

You poor soul - you really think that's real? I'd rather suspect that you hate him, because if someone with real fighting intent goes to see him, he'll be in serious trouble.

Ya , that's him, he will make mince meat out of you.

He always has these idiots like you visit him, and they leave singing a different tune.

I always find it amazing how stupid you external guys are, what are you afraid of, that you will be wrong and your little world will collapse.

I have been in your world, it is shallow and small and not real.

Wake up.

See what I told you about video's, people just say they are fake. I mean stupid people, with no personal experence to make a real decision from.

[tiaji1983]

I am an internal stylist. I am still wondering about some of the demos out there. I can personally say Qi exists because of my experiences. Then again anyone out there that hasnt experienced it can call me a liar or a fake, or say that I was fooled by my teacher or myself, but I know what I experienced. Saying that, I also realized during my practice that a LOT of the demos we see today are fake, and can be explained by proper body mechanics.


Those of you that believe in Qi, and have experienced it for yourself, I have some questions I would like answered.

I have seen demos of "masters" standing in a bow stance, with a student in a bow stance facing them. Without first unbalancing the student, or touching thier center, or stepping through thier center, the teacher will strike or touch the student and send them flying 15-20 feet. How do you do that? If their off balance its easy, if you touch thier center you can move them, but without the students help I have never seen someone go that far. I understand its easier to push someone if you put your intention behind them, but my sifu can let you feel his qi from across the room and cannot make them go that far. How can someone do that, is it a hoax?

I have seen videos of the mysterious "empty force". I can feel my sifu's qi from across the room when he sends it, but he cannot make me move without my will to move. I read the book empty force, and practiced standing on stake for at the least 30 min a day for a year, and no results. Please dont refer me to the book but explain, how do they do it?

I have seen demos with the old masters doing push hands. The student will attempt a move and then suddenly go flying. This has been explained to me as no matter what stance they are in, they have a weakness, you use thier tension and push towards the weak spot in the stance. In order to do that the opponent would have to be VERY tense, but they are doing this against Taijiquan students who are supposed to have sung, and are not yet pushing. How and why does this work, or is it all a hoax?

[Hendrik]

I am an internal stylist. I am still wondering about some of the demos out there. I can personally say Qi exists because of my experiences. Then again anyone out there that hasnt experienced it can call me a liar or a fake, or say that I was fooled by my teacher or myself, but I know what I experienced. Saying that, I also realized during my practice that a LOT of the demos we see today are fake, and can be explained by proper body mechanics.


Those of you that believe in Qi, and have experienced it for yourself, I have some questions I would like answered.

I have seen demos of "masters" standing in a bow stance, with a student in a bow stance facing them. Without first unbalancing the student, or touching thier center, or stepping through thier center, the teacher will strike or touch the student and send them flying 15-20 feet. How do you do that? If their off balance its easy, if you touch thier center you can move them, but without the students help I have never seen someone go that far. I understand its easier to push someone if you put your intention behind them, but my sifu can let you feel his qi from across the room and cannot make them go that far. How can someone do that, is it a hoax?

I have seen videos of the mysterious "empty force". I can feel my sifu's qi from across the room when he sends it, but he cannot make me move without my will to move. I read the book empty force, and practiced standing on stake for at the least 30 min a day for a year, and no results. Please dont refer me to the book but explain, how do they do it?

I have seen demos with the old masters doing push hands. The student will attempt a move and then suddenly go flying. This has been explained to me as no matter what stance they are in, they have a weakness, you use thier tension and push towards the weak spot in the stance. In order to do that the opponent would have to be VERY tense, but they are doing this against Taijiquan students who are supposed to have sung, and are not yet pushing. How and why does this work, or is it all a hoax?

who is your sifu? do you have a website of him?

[tiaji1983]

My Sifu is Beto Briseno. He was a student of Grand Master Ark Yeuy Wong. Our website was www.tienshantzi.com. I think its temporarily closed down due to an issue we had with someone who was maintaining the website for us. I am planning on creating a new website for the school in late fall.

[YouKnowWho]

I have some questions I would like answered.

I have seen demos of "masters" standing in a bow stance, with a student in a bow stance facing them. Without first unbalancing the student, or touching thier center, or stepping through thier center, the teacher will strike or touch the student and send them flying 15-20 feet. How do you do that?

You should never ask such question on internet. The reason is simple. The 1st response that will come from others will be:

- Your Taiji suck (put you down).
- Your teacher's Taiji suck (put your teacher down).
- You will need to meet my teacher so my teacher can help you to open your eyes (brag about his teacher).

Instead, you should ask, "I can make people flying 20 feet. Can any of you guys be able to make people flying 200 ft?"

[YiQuanOne]

I am an internal stylist. I am still wondering about some of the demos out there. I can personally say Qi exists because of my experiences. Then again anyone out there that hasnt experienced it can call me a liar or a fake, or say that I was fooled by my teacher or myself, but I know what I experienced. Saying that, I also realized during my practice that a LOT of the demos we see today are fake, and can be explained by proper body mechanics.


Those of you that believe in Qi, and have experienced it for yourself, I have some questions I would like answered.

I have seen demos of "masters" standing in a bow stance, with a student in a bow stance facing them. Without first unbalancing the student, or touching thier center, or stepping through thier center, the teacher will strike or touch the student and send them flying 15-20 feet. How do you do that? If their off balance its easy, if you touch thier center you can move them, but without the students help I have never seen someone go that far. I understand its easier to push someone if you put your intention behind them, but my sifu can let you feel his qi from across the room and cannot make them go that far. How can someone do that, is it a hoax?

I have seen videos of the mysterious "empty force". I can feel my sifu's qi from across the room when he sends it, but he cannot make me move without my will to move. I read the book empty force, and practiced standing on stake for at the least 30 min a day for a year, and no results. Please dont refer me to the book but explain, how do they do it?

I have seen demos with the old masters doing push hands. The student will attempt a move and then suddenly go flying. This has been explained to me as no matter what stance they are in, they have a weakness, you use thier tension and push towards the weak spot in the stance. In order to do that the opponent would have to be VERY tense, but they are doing this against Taijiquan students who are supposed to have sung, and are not yet pushing. How and why does this work, or is it all a hoax?

That is empty force, not real IMO more of a cooperation between the two.

I have been in the room where one person jumping around like idiot, from a waving hand, I feel nothing.

Some people I think just tune into it and feel something. I have not felt it yet like that.

Maybe someone else here has experenced it?.