Internal martial arts: a fiction?

[Scott R. Brown]

It does not matter how good reciepents stance is, he will not be able to change fast enough anyway.

Sam is not magical, maybe to you, because you do not know what he is doing.

You guys seem to keep getting off of subject, we are not talking about strength.

It does matter what stance the opponent uses. It is one of the most significant factors involved in the trick when these demos are performed!

Your comment leads me to believe you do not have a clear understanding of the importance of stance or how to exploit your opponent's stance to your own advantage. At least not objectively.

His demonstration is easily repeatable by anyone with the knowledge of biomechanics and a little practice!



You never take a bar bet on the challenger's terms because it is a challenge he has set himself up to win. It is the same for demonstrations. They are designed, by their nature, to succeed in making a point and thus are guaranteed to make the point without argument or challenge by the audience, in most cases.

If you are unable to see the reason Sam can knock the guy back is primarily because of his opponent's weak stance and secondarily because of the way he uses "external" force against a compliant opponent, then you are drinking koolade and not thinking for yourself!

[Water-quan]

Is 'yiquan' Chinese for 'all talk'?

[Water-quan]

However, Yiquan ground-fighting looks pretty impressive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEO5i6UJVA0

[SimonM]

It does not matter how good reciepents stance is, he will not be able to change fast enough anyway.

Sam is not magical, maybe to you, because you do not know what he is doing.

You guys seem to keep getting off of subject, we are not talking about strength.

[SimonM]

Is 'yiquan' Chinese for 'all talk'?

In the mid-1920s, he came to the conclusion that xingyiquan was often taught wrong, with too much emphasis on 'outer form', neglecting the essence of true martial power. He started to teach what he felt was the true essence of the art using a different name, without the 'xing' (meaning form).

In other words, yes.

[YiQuanOne]

It does matter what stance the opponent uses. It is one of the most significant factors involved in the trick when these demos are performed!

Your comment leads me to believe you do not have a clear understanding of the importance of stance or how to exploit your opponent's stance to your own advantage. At least not objectively.

His demonstration is easily repeatable by anyone with the knowledge of biomechanics and a little practice!



You never take a bar bet on the challenger's terms because it is a challenge he has set himself up to win. It is the same for demonstrations. They are designed, by their nature, to succeed in making a point and thus are guaranteed to make the point without argument or challenge by the audience, in most cases.

If you are unable to see the reason Sam can knock the guy back is primarily because of his opponent's weak stance and secondarily because of the way he uses "external" force against a compliant opponent, then you are drinking koolade and not thinking for yourself!

Well if you say little Sam is using external push, I guess he is a strong old man.

I don't see much external push.

But you guys seem to be the experts at external tricks.

[Scott R. Brown]

Well if you say little Sam is using external push, I guess he is a strong old man.

I don't see much external push.

But you guys seem to be the experts at external tricks.

Wow! Just Wow!

You don't see it because you don't want to see it.

If you think that took any power of note you are truly a lost cause. Yes it is external power, that is he used his muscles to make the guy fall backwards. He used his muscles in a judicious manner with a modicum of technique. THAT is why it is easy to accomplish.

And apparently, YES compared to you we ARE experts, because you cannot see what is clear as a bell to the rest of us.

In fact, that demonstration is one of the easiest to explain and reproduce. The Aikido tricks in the other video take a bit more understanding of biomechanics to reproduce. But the one with Sam, I can teach someone to do in a relatively short period of time, like in a day or less depending upon how much body awareness they have!

[Water-quan]

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Well if you say little Sam is using external push, I guess he is a strong old man.

I don't see much external push.

But you guys seem to be the experts at external tricks.

Honest to goodness, the old guy is such an obvious fraud. I wouldn't mind if this was one of those 'Cung Le never fights anyone good' type arguments - but, in this case, it's so obvious he's a fraud that you must really, really want it to be true so much that you're actually seeing other people playing tricks.

So anyway, bottom line, there are no videos of the things of which you speak, other than fat old men touching people inappropriately, and them flying away unbelieveably. So much for yiquan. On to the next fraud...

[Hendrik]

Just my personal view, nothing more then my personal view.
Let's examine what is going on.

The following is my view.

people said the same about fajing. Its simply body mechanics and sung. If you can understand the 2 you can understand fajing.

What is the facts behind fajing?

what is fajing?

what is sung?

what is body mechanics?


Until it is well define, it really doesnt mean anything.

I dont think the exercise is as mysterious as you make it sound.


Basically to do the exercise you start to move but you do not this creates a "force" moving forward.

You do the same for all directions.

standing on stake builds the muscles to be able to withstand the posture for a long time, helps correct body alignment errors, and help to relax parts of the body we were not aware was tense.

the moving but not moving force in the directions builds the minute muscles to work in those directions.


Then you also get a sense of changing directions.

The same thing is practiced with San Ti Shi in Xinyiquan.

Now its just a matter of putting it into practice to understand it.

appearantly some teachers put thier hand on your shoulder and try to hold you there, and see if you can move. If you can move you developed the proper force for Hun Yuan Li. so its now just a matter of practice and testing.

1, there is nothing mysterious. however, if one want to take what one "thinks " as facts instead of facts. than, that is mysterious because the mind cannot comprehend what is going on due to it has no experience.


2, that the above Broad letter high lights sentences are clearly showing, this is a creation of mind based on some thinking /extrapolation based on external art which unrelated to what is Hun Yun Li in the physical world. those are something cannot be cash in the bank.


I place this type of practice which major of people call it Internal art ( thinking it is deep and powerful , as describe above) as "psedo-internal" , that is not real internal art but external art mimic internal with a few limited specific structures, forms or tricks.

may be great to be shown in demo ....etc and looks elegant....etc
in the real life these stuffs cannot beat the external and in fact, it cannot take a

multi-dimensional strike with RAW power of good strong external players. such as

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkqRw...eature=related



The art I am talking about as Wang Xiang-Zai, Sun Lu-Tang, Ma Li-Tang... is something beyond the "psedo-internal" ; and have the process of cultivation which could atleast par or go beyond the external multi-dimensional Raw power strike of good strong external players. Only at that grade, that is real deal.

so , there is momentum, force vectors, Qi, intention..... handling/process specific and very details needs to be addressed. it is not simpy "oh it is biomechancis " either. it is does one knows the Process to make it happen?

it is not qouting some Lao Tzu or translate some old classical text or get scientific.

It is a fact that disregards of who says what it doesnt matter. because facts is facts no matter how and who said anything it is still facts. the question is does one has it? do one has the process? do one has the cultivation?


but then the world is ---- those who do pseudo internal love to make big claim which is impossible to deliver in reality. those who do external thinking that is the only way. those who does internal is dying off because internal art just means much more practice then external in details and no one really like to practice it because it is all kind of hard work and no big claim.

[Scott R. Brown]

I am not calling it fraud, myself.

I do not know how he markets it. If he is making it out to be something special I would have a problem with it. If he is just showing proper use of technique and a little demo I don't have a problem with it!

I didn't listen to the sound or read any viewer comments. I am speaking strictly on what I see being performed.

[YiQuanOne]

I am not calling it fraud, myself.

I do not know how he markets it. If he is making it out to be something special I would have a problem with it. If he is just showing proper use of technique and a little demo I don't have a problem with it!

I didn't listen to the sound or read any viewer comments. I am speaking strictly on what I see being performed.

Sam does not make claims of magic, he is real deal.

I feel like we are talking religion, if you are ever around the bay area maybe we can meet and talk in person.

As far as those 7 year guys, they don't have enough experence to judge anything.

[Water-quan]

Sam does not make claims of magic, he is real deal.

I feel like we are talking religion, if you are ever around the bay area maybe we can meet and talk in person.

As far as those 7 year guys, they don't have enough experence to judge anything.

Well duh - he's not going to actually call it 'magic' any more than calling it fraud. What you do is use a lot of mumbo jumbo and call anyone who doesn't buy it an idiot. *irony*

So, basically, that's it - that, according to you, is yiquan - a fat old fraud who repels shills. Awesome.

[Dragonzbane76]

However, Yiquan ground-fighting looks pretty impressive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEO5i6UJVA0

sarcasm?? because i watched that vid and didn't see anything oriented with ground fighting.

[YouKnowWho]

Whenever I saw a clip that shows "push", I always askes, "What's the purpose of that push"? It's neither a strike nor a throw. You push your opponent away without hurting him and he will definitely come back to you again. Why do you want to do stupid thing like that?

If anybody can put up a youtube clip that he can push a 120 lb (not that heavy) throwing dummy and make it flying in the air and land 20 feet away, That person will be famous overnight.

Now, who want to put up the 1st clip like that?

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...w=1344&bih=590

[YiQuanOne]

Whenever I saw a clip that shows "push", I always askes, "What's the purpose of that push"? It's neither a strike nor a throw. You push your opponent away without hurting him and he will definitely come back to you again. Why do you want to do stupid thing like that?

If anybody can put up a youtube clip that he can push a 120 lb (not that heavy) throwing dummy and make it flying in the air and land 20 feet away, That person will be famous overnight.

Now, who want to put up the 1st clip like that?

Dummys don't hit back !