Iron Palm

[Dale Dugas]

Many people talk about running the breath, but you want to be careful and not push or try and force the breath through the pathways taught.

Also standing teaches people how to release a lot of excess tension within the body. Yiquan and other systems who stand for long periods of time notice they can move faster, strike harder from ridding the excess tension through standing postures.

When the tension is minimal you then have more muscles fibers that are not tense, and can be then utilized in movements.

hence many internal teachers talk about standing for power. Not that standing increase strength but minimizing tension in muscle fibers means you can incorporate those fibers when needed.


How I was taught:

Arm Grabs to warm up the entire structure being entrained

Four Ways of Balancing Energy: movements to entrain basic directions and movement of the arms/hands

Throwing Fingers Away: Done here and at the end of session

Power Standing: as mentioned above.

Medicine application: done three times throughout the session

Bag Striking: Palm, Back of the Palm, Knife Edge, and a short distance strike with the palm. Be careful fingers can be damages on steel shot bags easily.

Tension Breathes: To help warm up the muscles and get ready for more standing

Medicine Application: Third time, second time is done halfway through your session, make sure the medicine is absorbed.

Shaking Hands: Shake them for a minute or so

Standing: Place hands at sides and visualize the energy moving through the body to the palms of the hands(if you train both sides or to the hand you trained).

Not complex but there are other factors that help as well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Awesome



I think accupuncture is also one of those things where not everyone is equally qualified.

Are there some good accupucturists? Sure!

Are there some nutjobs who are just trying to capitalize on the fact that some people want accupuncture? Absolutely.

Same thing with chiropractic (another scammy practice). There are some good chiropractors. Most of them are just salesmen and chiropractic isn't even a science; it's a bunch of woo.

Back to accupuncture. Can it cure some things? Yeah, probably in some cases.

Is it a secret mystic cure-all that Western medicine wants to keep down? Of course not. Are the people who think this is the case? Yes.



Agreed. But it's unrelated to the efficacy of Chinese medicine.

On a related note, be your own advocate. If the dr gives you drugs, research them for interactions because even tho the docs and pharmacists are supposed to do this, sometimes things slip through the cracks.

If you're supposed to have something removed, take a magic marker and write "wrong one" on the other side. There are stories of doctors amputating the wrong limb and stuff, which is tragic.

Trust doctors, but verify what they tell you. Know what you are taking and why. Know how it works.

Doctors are human. Humans make mistakes.

Research and attempt to authenticate anything anyone tells you for that matter. Like if they say they are protecting themselves with qi, but it actually seems more like physics and stage tricks, don't just believe them at face value

You made your views and stated your case.
That is enough derailing.
Get back to the topic at hand.

[Empty_Cup]

We do:

1) Palm exercises/Heaven and earth
2) Standing meditation, "running the breath"
3) Rub in the medicine
4) Strikes on the bag
5) Breathing exercise/palms facing the floor
6) Rub in medicine
7) Throw the fingers away from the body
8) Standing meditation/Run the breath, then to the striking palm, (feel the thump)

In a nutshell

Many people talk about running the breath, but you want to be careful and not push or try and force the breath through the pathways taught.

...

Can you describe more of what you mean by "running the breath?"

[sanjuro_ronin]

Can you describe more of what you mean by "running the breath?"

Think of being aware of the breath cycle you naturally have.
Then think being very in tune with it.
Then think being able to control it WITHOUT forcing your freath.
Then think being able to "direct" your breath in a specific cycle so as to be more aware of it and regulate it.

Think deep sea divers, yogis and such.

IP has specific ways of "running your breath" around your body and to your limb(s) so as to "direct" it to increase the rate of healing and other things.

[Empty_Cup]

Think of being aware of the breath cycle you naturally have.
Then think being very in tune with it.
Then think being able to control it WITHOUT forcing your freath.
Then think being able to "direct" your breath in a specific cycle so as to be more aware of it and regulate it.

Think deep sea divers, yogis and such.

IP has specific ways of "running your breath" around your body and to your limb(s) so as to "direct" it to increase the rate of healing and other things.

Do you consider this the same as Grand Circulation or something different?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Do you consider this the same as Grand Circulation or something different?

Yep.
A rose by any other name...
We tend to get hung upon names and that is at times the source of the problem.
Pro athletes know the value of visualization, studies have been done that show the "rewiring" of the brain by simply visualizing the task as opposed to actualy doing it.
Fact is that visualizing the process a body is doing does indeed allow for some degree of control over the activity, much like one can learn to hold your breath for a very long time through practice and visualization techniques that teach one to "run the breath" and to slow down the heart beat and all that other stuff.

Just because TCMA gives it an "exotic' sounding name doesn't make it any less legit.

[Empty_Cup]

Yep.
A rose by any other name...
We tend to get hung upon names and that is at times the source of the problem.
Pro athletes know the value of visualization, studies have been done that show the "rewiring" of the brain by simply visualizing the task as opposed to actualy doing it.
Fact is that visualizing the process a body is doing does indeed allow for some degree of control over the activity, much like one can learn to hold your breath for a very long time through practice and visualization techniques that teach one to "run the breath" and to slow down the heart beat and all that other stuff.

Just because TCMA gives it an "exotic' sounding name doesn't make it any less legit.

...is still a rose. Nice. I've also heard of using Grand Circulation while performing iron bone training. I'm not at that level yet but might start incorporating bottle breathing into my routine.

What you mention about imagery is interesting. There's even been shown to be a physical response to imagery: http://jp.physoc.org/content/482/Pt_3/713.short

[IronWeasel]

Can you describe more of what you mean by "running the breath?"

Running the Breath is how we refer to a breathing exercise that includes the visualization of chi/energy flow.

We do this exercise:
-at the end of class for 5 minutes.
-before striking the IP bag (morning), 5 minutes
-before striking the IP bag (evening), 5 minutes
-during stance training, about 5 minutes total

Basically,you stand in a horse stance, teeth closed, tongue on the roof of the mouth.
The right hand is over the dantien with the thumb at the navel. Left hand is covering the back of the right hand. Relaxed.

Inhale through the nose, using diaphragmatic beathing, exhale through the mouth. The breath should be cool upon exhale like blowing out a match, not hot like trying to steam up a window.

I'm not going to go into all of the meridians and things, but basically, you imagine a marble sized sphere or energy/light/chi that begins at the dantien and as you inhale, it travels down the front of your body, under the groin, past the anus, up the back via the spine, up the neck and to the top of the head. The 'ball' should travel from the dantien to the top of the head at a steady rate, at the pace of your complete inhale.

Begin exhaling from te mouth as you visualize the 'ball' travelling down the front of your forehead, then face, via the philtrum (under the nose), down the chin, neck, chest, sternum, and returning to the dantien by the completion of the exhale.

Repeat.

There are a few variations on this exercise, and also other breathing exercises like it.

If done correctly, you can 'feel' your chi/energy...

I was a skeptic, and it took me almost three weeks to feel mine. Now I know that there is something to all of it.

All of the chi-whiners ought to stop posting about proof and just TRY the exercise.



Components necessary to 'feel' the chi:

-IP medicine (...not bruise medicine)
-Run the Breath
-Strike the bag (according to protocol)




I realize that some of this post is a little vague, but it's long enough as it is.

Happy training

[sanjuro_ronin]

...is still a rose. Nice. I've also heard of using Grand Circulation while performing iron bone training. I'm not at that level yet but might start incorporating bottle breathing into my routine.

What you mention about imagery is interesting. There's even been shown to be a physical response to imagery: http://jp.physoc.org/content/482/Pt_3/713.short

Our bodies to not distinguish between what IS (reality) and what the mind tells it.
There is quite a lot of control that one can exert on the human bodily processes, even those that are "automatic".
Breath control, blood pressure control, heart rate, etc.

[Empty_Cup]

Running the Breath is how we refer to a breathing exercise that includes the visualization of chi/energy flow.

We do this exercise:
-at the end of class for 5 minutes.
-before striking the IP bag (morning), 5 minutes
-before striking the IP bag (evening), 5 minutes
-during stance training, about 5 minutes total

Basically,you stand in a horse stance, teeth closed, tongue on the roof of the mouth.
The right hand is over the dantien with the thumb at the navel. Left hand is covering the back of the right hand. Relaxed.

Inhale through the nose, using diaphragmatic beathing, exhale through the mouth. The breath should be cool upon exhale like blowing out a match, not hot like trying to steam up a window.

I'm not going to go into all of the meridians and things, but basically, you imagine a marble sized sphere or energy/light/chi that begins at the dantien and as you inhale, it travels down the front of your body, under the groin, past the anus, up the back via the spine, up the neck and to the top of the head. The 'ball' should travel from the dantien to the top of the head at a steady rate, at the pace of your complete inhale.

Begin exhaling from te mouth as you visualize the 'ball' travelling down the front of your forehead, then face, via the philtrum (under the nose), down the chin, neck, chest, sternum, and returning to the dantien by the completion of the exhale.

Repeat.

There are a few variations on this exercise, and also other breathing exercises like it.

If done correctly, you can 'feel' your chi/energy...

I was a skeptic, and it took me almost three weeks to feel mine. Now I know that there is something to all of it.

All of the chi-whiners ought to stop posting about proof and just TRY the exercise.



Components necessary to 'feel' the chi:

-IP medicine (...not bruise medicine)
-Run the Breath
-Strike the bag (according to protocol)




I realize that some of this post is a little vague, but it's long enough as it is.

Happy training

Cool. Thanks for the explanation.

[Empty_Cup]

Is there any evidence out there of required frequency of training for IP?

I have always trained and been taught 2 - 3 times per week is sufficient. It wasn't until coming on this forum that I saw some folks saying that every day training is required. Maybe it's really a question of personal goals and progression but I would think there is a point of diminishing returns in frequency of training. i.e. at some point your body needs to repair itself to get more benefit from the next training session.

Thoughts?

[Dale Dugas]

For the first two years you train daily.

The first year, you train twice a day.

The second year you train once day.

after that you train when you want.

[Empty_Cup]

For the first two years you train daily.

The first year, you train twice a day.

The second year you train once day.

after that you train when you want.

Thanks for the response. With all due respect, what is the support for this training regimen? Have there been any studies done which show this training to have the most benefit? Would one progress even faster by training three times a day in the first years, for example?

[Dale Dugas]

studies?

this was the program as outlined by my Iron Palm teacher Gene Chicoine. He told me to do it and it was done.

Training three times a day is a nice thought, but unless you are independently wealthy or can afford to bring your training gear to work, training three times a day is not really feasible.

Twice a day for the first year, seven days a week will not only train the hands but will train your focus as well.

[TenTigers]

Hey Dale, did you learn any IP from your Mantis teacher? If so, how did it differ?