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Thread: chain punching till my arms fall off

  1. #1

    chain punching till my arms fall off

    Hi guys

    I have been training for a few months now. Last nights sesson was a killer. With punching weights we did 5 punches to the count, we did pyramid building from 10 to 50 then back down (i.e. 10 x 5, 20 x 5, 30 x 5 etc), followed by 100 (x 5). inbetween each set, we did a quick drill. This totals nearly 2000 punches. What is gained by punching to this degree? surely 50(x5) is plenty as a warm up? I guess it is for building the muscles that we punch with, i.e biceps, triceps and back?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    With punching weights
    Sorry I am new to Wing Chun, what is punching weights?

  3. #3
    They are just short lengths of 25mm diameter steel bar, about the width of your hand. Not that heavy to just lift but when chain punching you can feel the difference

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    They are just short lengths of 25mm diameter steel bar, about the width of your hand. Not that heavy to just lift but when chain punching you can feel the difference
    Thanks for your reply

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Hi guys

    I have been training for a few months now. Last nights sesson was a killer. With punching weights we did 5 punches to the count, we did pyramid building from 10 to 50 then back down (i.e. 10 x 5, 20 x 5, 30 x 5 etc), followed by 100 (x 5). inbetween each set, we did a quick drill. This totals nearly 2000 punches. What is gained by punching to this degree? surely 50(x5) is plenty as a warm up? I guess it is for building the muscles that we punch with, i.e biceps, triceps and back?
    Punching with weights is a good way to develop strength in the muscles that are required for such an action. I feel it's important to not go at full speed when the hands are weighted down and it's very important to practice form. This prevents injuries and fosters good technique.

    Also, weighing down your hands makes your hands 'lighter.' Put on a pair of 16oz boxing gloves and go hit a couple rounds on the heavy bag. Then take them off and put on some MMA gloves. You'll be as fast as lightning!
    “An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory.” – Friedrich Engels

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by couch View Post
    Punching with weights is a good way to develop strength in the muscles that are required for such an action. I feel it's important to not go at full speed when the hands are weighted down and it's very important to practice form. This prevents injuries and fosters good technique.

    ... You'll be as fast as lightning!
    Personally, I leave all the weights alone when practising chong kuen and I opt for using my blades

    http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1...witterpic1.jpg
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  7. #7
    I don't personaly use weights when punching, but we do have a drill called the 550 where you cycle through clusters of chain punches none stop. Its a killer drill but its great for building stamina, punch speed and for encouraging students to relax the shoulders and arms during punching. In the same vein we also do timed continuous chain punches, 20 seconds is normally enough to fatigue beginers but you can realtively quickly build up to a minute or two.
    A clever man learns from his mistakes but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.


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  8. #8
    The methods above can be good to a degree for speed but can also cause some bad habits too.

    Ultimately, the most important thing is a well-timed, well-executed punch. Your main focus, especially as a beginner, should be on proper form and hand/arm conditioning.

    A wall bag will develop your fist/arm to take the necessary shock that you'll encounter when landing a solid blow on a human body. When you hit the bag make sure that your arm is not fully extended upon impact but don't be too bent at the same time, just enough to where your explode power will kick in. A wall bag is also important for focus. You have to be accurate in your straight punch, especially when you'll be turning and facing your opponent very quickly and quite often in a skirmish. It might sound mundane punching straight forward into a fixed object but it will improve it. You can also get the slightly stiffer wall bags and have a friend move around the room while holding it on his chest. This will help a lot too but your friend has to be willing to take a little bit of a beating too!

    Practicing your punch in the air is the best way for developing form and will increase your power in it's own right as well. You don't need to go fast. Just make sure you come out on your centerline from start to finish. Your punch should end up around the base of your neck area with the knuckle of the thumb being in line with where your adam's apple is. Don't clench your fist, just put it in the shape of a fist. Your fist will be at a slight angle out when fully extended. If you're doing it right, this will be natural. When punching your fist should come up at an angle in a smooth continuous line, no hammer fisting. It helps beginners to imagine a string pulling up on the inside of their elbow until fully extended. The pinkie knuckle of your rear hand should rest right about where your solar plexus is in a relaxed position(at an angle) with your knuckles facing away from your body and your fingernails facing in. Do not rest your rear hand on your body.

    Now this part is very important, when practicing make sure that both arms move at exactly the same time. You might think you're doing it right but this takes months, sometimes years to perfect. This is what will create your punch timing. If you have to record yourself until you get it right, do it. As the rear fist initiates, the extended arm rolls back. Neither one moves first but at the exact same time. Remember that and train that more than anything. This reason alone is why doing a blurry of punches can harm you and you'll see, hopefully, that as you progress a blurry of punches is a bad thing to do and will make you plateau quickly with your ability to control the opponent.

    This video I have posted here is how chain punching should be applied in Wing Chun. This isn't about lineage or anything like that but a concept that came down from the top that is widely misunderstood.

    http://fongswingchun.com/ChainPunchDemo.mp4

    Hope this helps!
    Matt
    ______________________

    www.youtube.com/mvbrown25

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mvbrown21 View Post
    A wall bag will develop your fist/arm to take the necessary shock that you'll encounter when landing a solid blow on a human body.
    Since I am new, could you let us. What filling should we use inside the wall bag? Also should the bag be fill to the max like a pillow? Thanks.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kowloonboy View Post
    Since I am new, could you let us. What filling should we use inside the wall bag? Also should the bag be fill to the max like a pillow? Thanks.
    yellow beans are good for starters... fill 80% allow for impact to compress bag or you can split zipper etc...
    Hit bag a few times [10-15 punches] and check in between your knuckles for a small red 'tattoo' mark aka a blood blister, forming from heat/friction under the skin. Stop ! before it bleeds on bag [hygiene] and it takes 3 weeks before you can hit again...
    when you make red mark on fist turn to open vertical palm strikes, you will develop blister at base of palm same way if not careful, so stop and cool down. Check often...
    next day add a few more punches, and so on...try 500 between forms, run 5 miles have bag in backpack, use bungee cord to strap to available tree , hit , forms, hit, forms hit tree too then run more..fitness just as important for punching...
    You can make a narrow hanging bag out of an old jacket sleeve filled with small rocks/pebbles/shingle, wrap in gaffer tape for jum sao elbow in horizontal palm strikes .
    For kicking fill wall bag [larger] with shingle/rocks etc....
    No better object to hit and kick than the Thai long bag.


    On another note, the fists pass next to each other, either side of the line not over and under, very important to repeat this early or you ingrain straightlines rather than sweeping , striking natural intercepting lines..iow lin sil di dar starts asa you do chain punch....forget fast punching , try good line sweeping strikes with body behind them.
    Last edited by k gledhill; 06-03-2011 at 06:17 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    yellow beans are good for starters... fill 80% allow for impact to compress bag or you can split zipper etc...
    Hit bag a few times [10-15 punches] and check in between your knuckles for a small red 'tattoo' mark aka a blood blister, forming from heat/friction under the skin. Stop ! before it bleeds on bag [hygiene] and it takes 3 weeks before you can hit again...
    when you make red mark on fist turn to open vertical palm strikes, you will develop blister at base of palm same way if not careful, so stop and cool down. Check often...
    next day add a few more punches, and so on...try 500 between forms, run 5 miles have bag in backpack, use bungee cord to strap to available tree , hit , forms, hit, forms hit tree too then run more..fitness just as important for punching...
    You can make a narrow hanging bag out of an old jacket sleeve filled with small rocks/pebbles/shingle, wrap in gaffer tape for jum sao elbow in horizontal palm strikes .
    For kicking fill wall bag [larger] with shingle/rocks etc....
    No better object to hit and kick than the Thai long bag.


    On another note, the fists pass next to each other, either side of the line not over and under, very important to repeat this early or you ingrain straightlines rather than sweeping , striking natural intercepting lines..iow lin sil di dar starts asa you do chain punch....forget fast punching , try good line sweeping strikes with body behind them.
    Good tips Kevin

  12. #12
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    Physical training should be done at home or in a seperate training time or location. Kwoon time should be spent strictly for teaching and learning. You spend half your time doing PT and you get very little teaching and learning in. You pay, but only get what already belongs to you.
    Jackie Lee

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    On another note, the fists pass next to each other, either side of the line not over and under, very important to repeat this early or you ingrain straightlines rather than sweeping , striking natural intercepting lines..iow lin sil di dar starts asa you do chain punch....forget fast punching , try good line sweeping strikes with body behind them.
    Kowloonboy: This is a lineage thing. Only train this way if you're going to end up in the WSL lineage, specifically the Philip Bayer line. I'm not going to pass judgement, it's neither here nor there, it's what you want personally that matters. Just know that they do many things very different.

    In regards to the wall bag, I use brown rice. Brown rice keeps the bugs away for some reason. How you fill it kind of depends on the quality of the bag and what it's made out of. For instance, the high quality leather and/or leather canvas mix bags you can pack jam tight and over time you'll "break it in" to the perfect condition. The cheaper bags you fill pretty much the way Kevin described.

    I would start out with the rice to break you in and if you want, some people move onto small BB's at first and move on to bigger ones as their hands toughen. It's really not necessary though. A rice filled bag will be enough. I recommend picking up some "dit da jow" too. It's a chinese herb blend that helps strengthen your bones and ligaments over time. But right away it will take away any aches and pains you might have. Just rub on a small amount on your hands before and after training with the wall bag. As you move on to working with a partner or on the dummy you can put it on your forearms as well.

    Hope this helps
    Matt
    ______________________

    www.youtube.com/mvbrown25

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mvbrown21 View Post
    Kowloonboy: This is a lineage thing. Only train this way if you're going to end up in the WSL lineage, specifically the Philip Bayer line. I'm not going to pass judgement, it's neither here nor there, it's what you want personally that matters. Just know that they do many things very different.

    In regards to the wall bag, I use brown rice. Brown rice keeps the bugs away for some reason. How you fill it kind of depends on the quality of the bag and what it's made out of. For instance, the high quality leather and/or leather canvas mix bags you can pack jam tight and over time you'll "break it in" to the perfect condition. The cheaper bags you fill pretty much the way Kevin described.

    I would start out with the rice to break you in and if you want, some people move onto small BB's at first and move on to bigger ones as their hands toughen. It's really not necessary though. A rice filled bag will be enough. I recommend picking up some "dit da jow" too. It's a chinese herb blend that helps strengthen your bones and ligaments over time. But right away it will take away any aches and pains you might have. Just rub on a small amount on your hands before and after training with the wall bag. As you move on to working with a partner or on the dummy you can put it on your forearms as well.

    Hope this helps
    a lineage thing ? the first thing everyone of us does when starting the forms, x wrists in front of sternum extend outwards so wrists stay xed until they reach apex.
    return back to X in front of chest....then left fist wrist x's the line too and extends forwards with elbow touching line , wrist still xing line...
    right punch same..
    left tan also x's line...etc...

    subtle Matt, not a lineage thing....it allows the strikes to turn levers if they are intercepted along the way as we attack. The dummy also develops this 'turning' idea.

    It has to be felt to be appreciated, why we dont hand chase, the arms are working the line of anything we need to worry about ...mindlessly. No mind.

    Every form starts with this for a reason Matt...striking lines, lin sil di dar, and it gets more refined with tan and jum concepts.

    its there in front of everyone who does VT. x line strike, return, x line strike, return...nothing to do with lineage, its knowledge.
    Last edited by k gledhill; 06-03-2011 at 07:42 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    a lineage thing ? the first thing everyone of us does when starting the forms, x wrists in front of sternum extend outwards so wrists stay xed until they reach apex.
    return back to X in front of chest....then left fist wrist x's the line too and extends forwards with elbow touching line , wrist still xing line...
    right punch same..
    left tan also x's line...etc...
    I wasn't referring to that concept Kev, I was referring to the either punching over each fist as it comes back or the side by side method.
    Matt
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    www.youtube.com/mvbrown25

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