Provable Internal Energy; Unbendable Arm

[Foiling Fist]

When water is rushing through a fire hose at a high pressure rate, and flowing out of the nozzle, it is nearly impossible to bend sideways. This is due to the internal strength of the water flowing within.

This is the same energy that is used in internal martial arts, and is strenghtened with the training method 'Unbendable Arm', made famouse by Aikido Grandmaster Uyshiba.
See : http://aikidoforbeginners.blogspot.c...dable-arm.html

[sanjuro_ronin]

A physics class wouldn't kill you and once you got that down, maybe some reading on biomechanics too.

[YouKnowWho]

'Unbendable Arm',

Anybody can learn this trick within 2 minutes. Does that mean anybody can be "internal" master quickly?

When fire fighters hold tarp for people to jump on it. It's the same explaination that "extension" force bounce vertical force back. In the "unbendable arm" example, the vertical force is bounced (transmitted) into the ground by both persons feet.

Even my female student could demonstrate this in public.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxazd0dK7EM

[sihing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CzgDX9lGc0 , more like 15 seconds to learn...

J

[wenshu]

CrossFat and Qi Magic together at last!

[Foiling Fist]

Responding to:
'Anybody can learn this trick within 2 minutes. Does that mean anybody can be "internal" master quickly? '

Yes and no. Anybody can get some strength by using this method, not likely most would have full strength though, unless facing death.

Everyone has Qi (Chi): it is part of the life force; without it you would be dead. When high in Qi, you have greater stamina, when low you are sick and/or tired. This essence is similar to the Indian Yoga concept of Prajna.

Infants flow their Qi better than most adults, are less uptight, learn faster, and more natural, animalistic as well as limber. As most are processed by overly structured education, religion, cultural and social constraints, blocks are put up to free expression. Just as un-oiled leather becomes rigid; so do our connective tissues, and most as they get older cannot stretch as far as when they were young. Any chiropractor will tell you how we loose joints do to lack of use, and when not bent; two connecting bones will fuse together into one.

Watch a tiger move, do you see an erector set, or a pulley system of tendons? I see wave actions, animals have unblocked Qi, and keep limber.

Place a penny in an infant’s (6 months) palm, in the middle and let him close his had over it to wrap the penny in a fist. Gently try and pry the fist open to get the penny, gradually and evenly exerting increasing pressure to pry the fist open with your fingertips. Even a full grown man will have difficulty opening the infant’s hand. Why: the man has more muscle, yet the infant is using his Qi intrinsically.

Does this mean that every infant is Qigong master; no. What it does mean that we all have some incredible power that we can tap into with training.

Responding to:
‘A physics class wouldn't kill you and once you got that down’.

Fluid dynamics, is a good related study of how Qi works. It is usually only studied by aeronautical engineers.

We are 80% water, so some of the best Buddhist meditative and Qigong methods will refer to this property, without the concept of wetness (surface tension etc.).

The physics term resonance might help, see: http://www.intuitor.com/resonance/index.php

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fluid dynamics, is a good related study of how Qi works. It is usually only studied by aeronautical engineers.

We are 80% water, so some of the best Buddhist meditative and Qigong methods will refer to this property, without the concept of wetness (surface tension etc.).

No.
I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, speciality in pressure vessels and pressure piping.
So, obviously, fluid, steam, high temp and high pressure are things I know a "tad" about.
They have very little to do with how the HUMAN body works, which must be applied via human biomechanics.
Just like all physics MUST be "translated" to human biomechanics.

[Frost]

No.
I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, speciality in pressure vessels and pressure piping.
So, obviously, fluid, steam, high temp and high pressure are things I know a "tad" about.
They have very little to do with how the HUMAN body works, which must be applied via human biomechanics.
Just like all physics MUST be "translated" to human biomechanics.

owned, spanked and put to bed

[CFT]

When water is rushing through a fire hose at a high pressure rate, and flowing out of the nozzle, it is nearly impossible to bend sideways. This is due to the internal strength of the water flowing within.

This is the same energy that is used in internal martial arts, and is strenghtened with the training method 'Unbendable Arm', made famouse by Aikido Grandmaster Uyshiba.
See : http://aikidoforbeginners.blogspot.c...dable-arm.html

I'm sure 'taai gihk yahn' can give us the official anatomical reasons why everyone has an unbendable arm and I very much doubt Qi will feature in the explanation. [EDIT] Should have guessed, he's done it already ... http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...4&postcount=74

My thinking is that the elbow joint is being 'tested' in the same plane of its natural motion, hence it is adequately supported by the muscles around the joint, and so cannot be bent against the will of the testee.

[Foiling Fist]

When one uses muscle, the muscles tendons become larger and are pumped up with more blood (body builders use this). The arm is rigid, and the arm is tense.

When one uses Qi, the arm has muscle tone, but not the tension associates with contracting the tendon.

The condition of the arm is not as flaccid as when limp, when Qi is flowed.

Regarding:
'My thinking is that the elbow joint is being 'tested' in the same plane of its natural motion, hence it is adequately supported by the muscles around the joint, and so cannot be bent against the will of the testee. '

This does not explain why the elbow will bend when limp.

Regarding:
'I am an engineer, Bach in Mech Eng, '

Your bias is mechanical, as your degree implies, an expert would be an aeronautical engineer or physicist in wave theory and propagation; wave propagation occurs electrically also.

Mechanical Engineering was one of the last to get with the program of wave theory; that was developed in the late 1960's by physicists, not mechanics. I was fortunate to be taking physics when this was being developed.

Those that are seriously interested in studying this might start at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave

[Hendrik]

When one uses muscle, the muscles tendons become larger and are pumped up with more blood (body builders use this). The arm is rigid, and the arm is tense.

When one uses Qi, the arm has muscle tone, but not the tension associates with contracting the tendon. ,,,,,,,,,

Foiling Fist,

Have you actually train in any type of Qigong and learning how Qi works in term of healing , strengthening the body, and martial applications such as power generation?

If yes, could you please share your view in the above three areas on how Qi works?

In my opinion, I am interested in how to make it happen instead of Scientific or Physics.... because those are just theory and doesnt go any where most of the time.


Thanks in advance.


For me, the unbendable arm is just showing a simplicitic example of proper biomechenics structure. Sure, in a proper biomechenics structure , Qi will flow more smoothly but it is not the expression of Qi alone. Neither is the mind too.
So this case, there is a proper biomechanics structure to begin with the mind is just there to keep the structure stay proper, the Qi strengthen the structure further.


from my personal experience,
Qi exist, and it could be used to enhance biomechanics structure in term of strenght and flexibility and mobility. however, that is not what people advertist as the Qi blast....etc.
Without Qi in the training the biomechanics will no be able to carry up or enhance to a certain level. not to mention without intention involve the Qi is just follow its own path and thus to move the Qi intention is needed. Thus, again, there is no Qi blast with Qi as the only element alone.

[Kevin73]

It is about relaxing, and is a good way to get beginners to understand how their MUSCLES work.

Unbendable arm: One of the jobs of the bicep is to shorten and bring the forearm up, thus bending the arm. On of the jobs of the triceps is to straighten the arm.

The trick has nothing to do with qi, but understanding that if you flex the bicep or have tension in it, then you are telling the arm to bend and the bicep will flex and bend the arm as it's meant to do. By using the visualization, you are relaxing that bicep and actually contracting the tricep which will straighten the arm and then you use that muscle in a strong position to keep it from bending.

Most beginners when they get that force to bend the arm, will start to fight it and "muscle" it, which translates to the biceps being activated and curling the arm and it bends.

Again, this has nothing to do with chi, but everything to do with only using the muscles that need to be in action.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is about relaxing, and is a good way to get beginners to understand how their MUSCLES work.

Unbendable arm: One of the jobs of the bicep is to shorten and bring the forearm up, thus bending the arm. On of the jobs of the triceps is to straighten the arm.

The trick has nothing to do with qi, but understanding that if you flex the bicep or have tension in it, then you are telling the arm to bend and the bicep will flex and bend the arm as it's meant to do. By using the visualization, you are relaxing that bicep and actually contracting the tricep which will straighten the arm and then you use that muscle in a strong position to keep it from bending.

Most beginners when they get that force to bend the arm, will start to fight it and "muscle" it, which translates to the biceps being activated and curling the arm and it bends.

Again, this has nothing to do with chi, but everything to do with only using the muscles that need to be in action.

Kevin is correct, it is not about NOT using muscles ( which is impossible) but about using the correct ones.
By the way, the way the unbendable arm is done typically with the arm on the shoulder of the bender, is far easier that the old way I was taught and saw by the likes of Shioda and Kimeada and others.

[Darthlawyer]

When water is rushing through a fire hose at a high pressure rate, and flowing out of the nozzle, it is nearly impossible to bend sideways. This is due to the internal strength of the water flowing within.

This is the same energy that is used in internal martial arts, and is strenghtened with the training method 'Unbendable Arm', made famouse by Aikido Grandmaster Uyshiba.
See : http://aikidoforbeginners.blogspot.c...dable-arm.html

Did you actually READ the link you posted? If you did, you would have read:

The explanation of the unbendable arm is that it is not a feat of "energetics," but of mere physical strength, albeit proper use of strength. When the demonstrator first introduces unbendable arm, you are asked to "make a fist" and/or "use all of your muscle" to keep your arm from being bent. You do this by tightening the "big-bellied" muscles of the arm-the biceps specifically. When the demonstrator applies pressure to your arm, it bends because the muscles you have engaged are not the muscles needed to resist the pressure on your arm but are, in fact, the exact muscles that move your arm in the same direction as his pressure, i.e. the biceps bend the arm.

...

The method to keep someone from bending your arm in this exercise is correct and is most impressive, but the explanation of "life energy" (or any other explanation besides the use of the triceps) is wrong.
Knowing the real secret of the unbendable arm has been very helpful to me in examining the mechanics of other martial art techniques-throws, locks, punches, pushes, etc. It has also helped me to steer clear of the "Masters" who have other tricks that lead students far off the path. In other words, do not discount a method merely because it is incorrectly explained, but beware.

[YouKnowWho]

The unbendable arm is no different from the Taiji "Beng Jing" that unify your body as one unit. If you have it, it's very difficult for anybody to apply joint locking on you in stand up situation.