Hey Ross - You're wrong

[mooyingmantis]

Well, for a start, you could stop peddling colonial discourses. Indians don't exist to live up to your expectations. How interesting that after 'all that past that's behind us' we're still shaking our heads at how they 'squander' what we 'give' them.

That's a whole big issue on its own, but what it's getting at is a much wider and frigtening sense that you're not stopping with the Indians.

As a Native American, let me say that the saddest part of all is that we taught the colonists the proper methods of farming and helped them survive their first few years in this land. Perhaps mercy and good-will is sometimes a mistake.

[Syn7]

If I have change in my pocket, I can count on having at least one or two of those silly Canadian coins in the mix... funny thing is- stores take them just the same. No exchange rate.

Just saying...

actually, the canadian dollar is worth more than its american counterpart...

[Syn7]

Yep. This is what has happened to nearly every country and every culture and every civilization that ever existed.

Is there some way to make things better now? Nothing we can do about what happened 100 years ago except change how we do things now.

Many tribes DO live in third world conditions, despite large sums of money being transfered to each and every band there is. In Canada that's how it is. The corruption also exists within the tribes themselves where you see ruling families getting the lions share of federal funds and everyone else gets the minimum. Housing is built and destroyed, water systems are neglected, etc etc. people who come off the reserve get no monies from the feds and often find themselves in a world the reserve life did not prepare them for and many, inevitably fail in it.

There is some slow change coming though in that regard. the sooner the better, but healing takes time, turn about takes time, empowerment of self takes time.

We can complain a lot about the sins of our forefathers, but it achieves little and takes away from time that positive efforts can be put forth.

I'm not going to shit on myself or my ancestors for the sake of it though. I took nothing and I killed no one. Never have I slain a Buffalo or forced a child into a religious school. I didn't and I wouldn't consent to any of that.

in downtown vancouver natives make up 2% of the population but make up over 30% of the homeless... they are not doing so well over here... some are great, some are okay, most are dsyfunctional... i grew up around natives, i know exactly what they live like... in vancouver, that is... cant speak for anywhere else... but lets just say that the reserve produces a significantly higher percentage of dysfunctional households than any other race or culture... by a huge margin...

[Water-quan]

[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1102772]As a Native American, let me say that the saddest part of all is that we taught the colonists the proper methods of farming and helped them survive their first few years in this land. Perhaps mercy and good-will is sometimes a mistake.[/QUOTE

Re this very valid point, I found it pretty interesting when the fellow earlier said 'I've never killed any buffalo' - and how that re-states the fallacy that Native Americans where all hunters drifting across the plains.

I don't know what it is - maybe people feel it makes history less awful to think that nomadic hunters were simply moved to another pasture, when, in fact, most Native American communities were settled agricultural groups who farmed.

[Water-quan]

in downtown vancouver natives make up 2% of the population but make up over 30% of the homeless... they are not doing so well over here... some are great, some are okay, most are dsyfunctional... i grew up around natives, i know exactly what they live like... in vancouver, that is... cant speak for anywhere else... but lets just say that the reserve produces a significantly higher percentage of dysfunctional households than any other race or culture... by a huge margin...

By dysfunctional you mean that they don't fit in with how you think people should live - i.e. they should get a job, send the kids to school, work all day in the fish factory, stop drinking.

Soon we'll have imposed such function on Afghanistan, right?

[David Jamieson]

Bleeding hearts don't fix problems.
I'm not talking about my expectations, I'm talking about the reality of the circumstance.

I find that people tend to b*tch and complain about the past and point fingers of blame but often those very same people do little or nothing to alleviate whatever the problem is and certainly, in no instances are they offering viable alternatives.

we live in the modern world. I will not accept blame for the the sins of my ancestors, period, deal with it and move on because I'm pretty sure no one else is going to either.

trying to put words in other peoples mouths because of some clunky agenda doesn't do anything for the issue either.

what are the solutions. what do you know about the flow of man and conquering armies? As a man of Scots descent i can tell you that the Scots themselves are a mix of everyone who overran their homelands over the centuries too. You don't see me whining about Norway owing me my heritage rights do you?
As I am born in Canada, I am now a "Canadian" and though I am entitled, I have to jump through hoops to get my UK passport and lo and behold, Scotland is subjugated and joined to England and Wales!


Complaints about native lands will be heard elsewhere.

[Lebaufist]

We can start a list for how many ways this will be a financial disaster for the mid western states of Ameristan.

1. Conflict of interest.
2. Cruel and unusual punishment.
3. False imprisonment.
4. Lost wages.

feel free to add to the list. if people had half a brain they would stay in jail. For every day they are in jail they will accrue punitive damages from a civil suit against the state. This will be overturned by higher courts.

[Royal Dragon]

That's quite an interesting way of phrasing it, more like conquered, subjugated and almost completely wiped out...if not for modern Indian gaming, most tribes would probably be living in third world conditions on their reservations.

Big deal, they were living in primitive hunter gatherer societies anyway....and still would be if we weren't here.

[bawang]

you guys wouldnt mind china dominating the globe then

[Royal Dragon]

^^^

Anyone that lives under desert like lands, will mostly likely be living in mud huts or said, third world conditions. Who, in their right mind would endure year long droughts, ugly women and empty refrigerators.

Like Sam used to say, Move the Fuq where the food is!!

Actually, they were originally where the food was. They got moved to the barren areas they are in AFTER they were a conquered and beaten people.

[bawang]

you have to give meat to get meat. soon it will be time to give.

[Royal Dragon]

you guys wouldnt mind china dominating the globe then

No, they have good take out.

[bawang]

yes. we are good at taking things out.

*rubs hand together

[bawang]

china is trying to invest in africa and help it develop. nigeria actually has the most dense city in the world now. eurpeans take only natural resources but china is developing trade and african consumerism.

the european countries are already having trouble attracting immigrants. they are actually competing for immigrants now. negative population growth, economic and population crash coming.

in other words cheap goods and cheap labour would trickle to a stop.

if china succeeds europeans would become irrelevant.

[Water-quan]

Bleeding hearts don't fix problems.
I'm not talking about my expectations, I'm talking about the reality of the circumstance.

I find that people tend to b*tch and complain about the past and point fingers of blame but often those very same people do little or nothing to alleviate whatever the problem is and certainly, in no instances are they offering viable alternatives.

we live in the modern world. I will not accept blame for the the sins of my ancestors, period, deal with it and move on because I'm pretty sure no one else is going to either.

trying to put words in other peoples mouths because of some clunky agenda doesn't do anything for the issue either.

what are the solutions. what do you know about the flow of man and conquering armies? As a man of Scots descent i can tell you that the Scots themselves are a mix of everyone who overran their homelands over the centuries too. You don't see me whining about Norway owing me my heritage rights do you?
As I am born in Canada, I am now a "Canadian" and though I am entitled, I have to jump through hoops to get my UK passport and lo and behold, Scotland is subjugated and joined to England and Wales!


Complaints about native lands will be heard elsewhere.

That's interesting - you think a 'people' need a 'solution'.