OT, sorry. about depression. i need advice pretty badly

[prana]

It is a vicious cycle, because I was once depressive, it is a vicious cycle, I was once depressive, it is a vicious cycle...

But then, I broke free... http://www.fpmt.org/teachings/zopadepression.asp I hope she does too :)

[Martial Joe]

Ask whipping hand.
I think he is a mojor in psycology...
He might help...

IXIJoe KaveyIXI
I am Sharky's main man...

[Martial Joe]

Find him on the wing chun forum...

IXIJoe KaveyIXI
I am Sharky's main man...

[wufupaul]

I'm with JWT, I'm too cocky to be depressed, too, haha. GLW made a good point..be there for them. If they're depressed, they need to know that other people, besides themselves, depend on them and care about them. Plus, if they're depressed, alot of people won't wanna hang out with them, further making them dissasociate from their surroundings; nang with them, let them know you care. Anti-depressant medications(ssri's-such as Prozac) are used alot today; some people swear by them and others don't notice a thing. There are also dozens of schools of psychology that all have different ways of dealing with it. I tend to prefer the neuro-behavioral methods, myself. Of course, I only have my Bachelor's in Psychology; you don't really actively learn how to treat it until you get to grad. school. Basically, you learn alot about the different theories and treatments, but not alot of hands on experience. Best bet is to find another doctor if the current one doesn't seem to be helping. I've know plenty of people with affective disorders(depression, manic-depressive), and most seem to pull out of it. Ged, you can tell your girl that depression doesn't usually last forever, and it can be cured. It might take some time, but there is definitely hope.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.

[Robinf]

Actual clinical depression is a PHYSICAL illness, not a mental one. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain that canNOT be willed away or done away with by behavior training. It's much like diabetes or high bloodpressure. It's a physical, chemical imbalance that cannot be controlled by thought.

Change in diet, exercise can help ALEVIATE symptoms, but they're not cures. Clinical depression needs to be under thereputic and physical care.

Clinical depression is also something that's nothing to be ashamed of. It's something that just happens. If someone is predisposed to suffer from it, anything can bring it on--puberity is one thing, and then there's something that goes on between the ages of 18 and 21 that I think is being studied. These are the ages when depression and other neurological illness begin.

Again, clinical depression is nothing that can be "willed" away, and no amount of arrogance will prevent. It's an illness that happens. Like Mary Tyler Moore has diabetes and she's in excellent shape otherwise. It's just something that just can't be outrun.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[wufupaul]

Robin, I actually have studies that I can send you that show otherwise. You're right, clinical depression does have chemical symptoms(low levels of monoamines-norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin), but, over time these levels can gradually increase, or, using behavioral therapy of some kind, actually increase the level of these chemicals. Some studies show that positive thinking or even just a change in environment can actually raise the serotonin levels, without medication. Psychoneuroimminology(What I'm heading into, eventually, hehe) directly studies the connection between mind(psychological) and body(physical), so I don't tend to use "physical" vs. "psychological", because one directly affects the other. If you have a problem with either, the other will show symptoms as well. Using the ssri's can help them to start feeling better, until the cause of the depression(psychological) can be found and dealt with.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.

[gfhegel21]

I think the consensus nowadays is that illnesses like depression are MULTI-causal, a combination of genetic, environmental, behavioral etc. factors. The different factors probably will be weighted differently in any particular case. Treatment thus has to be multi-causal, and tailored to the causes of the problem. It's still as much art as science, but a combination of cognitive therapy and medication is probably a good way to help the situation.

That paragraph was for the couple of posts preceding this one.

As for the original poster, there is a lot of good advice so far: the bottom line is make sure she is in competent hands medically, and you ought to consider counseling on how to deal with a depressed person. It's not easy, and the degree of understanding required is very great.

Just don't let anybody tell you that she just needs to "snap out of it" or "stop feeling sorry for herself." Depression is a medical problem, not a personality flaw.

[origenx]

She probably had some traumatic event in her life that's eatin away at her.

Anti-depressants will mask the pain and many also will kill her s*x drive as well. So she can kill 2 birds w/one stone!

[Robinf]

wufupaul,

I'm well aware of the studies and those programs on Discover and PBS. I'm also aware of other studies that conflict with those. And, I'm well aware of what doctors follow.

Explain this using your studies: 21 year old is on top of the world--first in class at college, going to the graduate program of choice, family loves him/her, he/she has friends, but this person couldn't loathe him/herself more. Sees self as "being in the way"--there are others worthy of life and he/she should step aside. Survival of the fitest, and he/she sees him/herself as not fit so...

What trauma or mental anything brought this on? The person was never abused, never hit, actually, only had a couple of bullies in grammer that he/she defended him/herself against and was respected for by others, always did well and got along with others, never was really in want for anything.

Many teenagers going through puberty have no reason other than the physical changes going on in order to make them suffer from depression. Many 18 - 21 year olds never had anything bad happen to them to make them suffer from schizophrenia.

Nothing falls into any one category. There are as many that suffer from neurological illness that have not mental reason as those that do have a mental reason. It's naive to think that you can
cure clinical depression through "positive thinking". If the person is unable to think positively, then it's useless. That's like telling someone to just "snap out of it" and you'll be fine, or "shake it off" or "cheer up". Those are pretty useless.

Suffering from clinical depression cannot be behavior modified away. Behavior modification is necessary and helps alleviate the symptoms, but it is not a cure, particularly when the person can't think straight because the moods have taken over because of the chemical imbalance.

The drugs that are out stabalize the chemical seratonin in the brain which regulates mood. True, this chemical can be manipulated in otherwise healthy people through exercise and diet for the blues, but in people who have clinical depression, there's only drug therapy that will regulate this. Then, behavior modification, diet and exercise are implemented, which will help, but they are not the cure. The drugs are not "happy" pills--they stabalize a chemical. Like insulin stabalizes blood sugar levels. No one really knows what "cures" depression--we really only know how to alleviate the symptoms.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[ged]

thankyou everyone, very much, for your replies.

i had school yesterday and then went out last night to an 18th with her, so this is the first time ive seen the response ive gotten.

ill reply to everyone who emailed me sometime this afternoon, thanks so much once more. i want to help this girl, but sometimes its so hard to know what to say to her. hopefully ill have a better idea after this.

[ged]

i just went through all the posts again.

JWT - i agree, thats what worked for me when i was depressed. but i agree with everyone who says that clinical depression (im not sure if thats the term i want. i mean, when its a disease) cant be cured by simply snapping out of it.

cody, i had a look at that page. the suicidal thing was really helpful as well. shes made a few half-hearted attempts to kill herself in the time ive known her, and shes made one serious one before. i feel more confident now if that happens again.

ryu - thanks for your advice. she knows im there for her, but she kids herself that i hate her, that im too good for her, and so on. but im going to stay there for her, as are her friends and parents. and she does see a doctor about her medication, so shes in good hands. except they ****** the dosage up once :| the *******s. that screwed her up for a week,

i think im beginning to agree with people that antidepressants are just bad.

GLW - im getting the hang of paying attention to her warning signs. i just wish i knew how i can help her better. but her backlash ican deal with, when she abuses me, im not so stupid that i think its about me. its about her and her insecurities, which she takes out on me and her friends and family.

everyone else, thanks once more, especially for those who emailed me. im sorry if i bombarded those ppl with too much info - whatever advice you have would be great. just the fact that i got this off my chest has been good for me, and ive already gotten a few ideas on how to help her.

thanks everyone.

take care.

[DrunkenMonkey]

depression, man. In the end, drugs can't help you. The people around you can't help you, the things you surround yourself with can't help you. Its all about the person, man, thats all its about.

I went through some heavy depression for about 3 years. Seriously, depression is like a hole you dog into the ground around you, and once you're in it over your head, it takes a crap load of will power and patience to dig yourself out.

It's not about telling yourself you're tough, or you can get through the next day, or you can do better than what you are doing now. It's the attitude. It's gotta be like you're a bad ass, you can kick ass, you are a bad ass, you are the master, you are the master, you can kick ass.

Once I got my confidence back I quit the Martial Arts, and now I'm in boxing. :)

"If I knew then what I know now, I would have killed him."

[wufupaul]

Sorry, Robin, but your last post brought up way too many assumptions and hypothetical situations to address on the forum. If you'd like, you could email me, I wouldn't want to address those issues on this forum, because it would take up way too much space.

P.S-What programs on Discover and P.B.S were you referring to? I rarely watch tv, let me know what shows you saw on there that dealt with it, I'd appreciate it.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.