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Thread: New York's Central Park gives musicians the boot

  1. #1

    New York's Central Park gives musicians the boot

    "NEW YORK (AFP) – Few instruments can be gentler than the harp, but authorities in New York's Central Park have branded street musicians like harpist Meta Epstein a public disturbance and want them driven out.

    A new campaign to enforce eight "quiet zones," including in some of the city's most hallowed spots for street performers, is turning virtuosos like Epstein into outlaws.

    After years of being left in peace to perform her baroque repertoire on the beautiful, golden instrument, Epstein, 59, says she's suddenly being treated as a menace.

    Park police, she said, accused her of destroying the grass where she sat and ordered her to move on.

    "They say we're responsible for the bare patch but then you see people everywhere playing soccer with boots and cleats," she said in bewilderment. "They were actually pretty nasty and I'm not used to police intimidation. It's basically putting us out of work."

    Nearby in the mosaic-lined colonnades next to Bethesda Fountain, a few brave souls performed Mozart and Gospel songs in defiance of the ban.

    The columned arcade is not just a prime tourist spot, but enjoys some of the best acoustics in New York outside of a concert hall, leaving the last note of each song hanging in the air. But the musicians, including a Japanese singer, a Ukrainian double bass player and singer John Boyd, said playing timeless music hadn't saved them from the crackdown.

    Boyd, a 48-year-old with a powerful, deep voice, pulled eight pink sheets from his pocket -- park police summonses handed out over the last two weeks for fines ranging from $50 to $350.

    "I've been ticketed and arrested because I wouldn't stop singing," he said. "My life has been devastated by this."

    Central Park representatives say they have nothing against musicians. They just want don't want them in "quiet zones," which have been marked with new, shiny green and white signs.

    Park spokeswoman Vickie Karp said the zones include the Bethesda Fountain area, Shakespeare Garden, Sheep Meadow and Strawberry Fields, the living memorial to the Beatles' John Lennon, who was murdered nearby.

    "For every protester supporting music or loud noise without limits, there are thousands of park visitors who come to parks looking for peace and quiet," Karp said in an email.

    "Parks are one of the few places you can come and hear the soothing sounds of nature: bird songs, falling water, the wind in the leaves, human conversation."

    Karp pointed out that musical performances at Bethesda Fountain can attract crowds of as many as hundreds of people. Some weekends, the sound reverberates across the boating pond and into the carefully preserved, dense woodland of The Ramble.

    "It is not that we are against music. It is that we are for quiet," Karp said.

    Musicians say that logic doesn't justify the expulsion of classical singers and string instrument players, whose melodies, if anything, are more soothing than the noise of tourist crowds.

    Arlen Oleson, 56, who plays the hammer dulcimer, noted that huge concerts for rock bands are organized in Central Park, bringing tens of thousands of people to trample the grass and mammoth speakers to pump out mega-decibel music.

    "It's a galling hypocrisy," he said.

    The street musicians have gotten some high-profile help in the last week.

    Norman Siegel, a prominent civil rights lawyer, has taken up their cause and Boyd said the attorney was helping him try to escape punishment.

    Geoffrey Croft, the founder of NYC Park Advocates, which supports city parks, has also jumped in, calling the issue "absurd."

    "As long as there's been a park system people have been playing music in parks," he told AFP. "They're claiming people are complaining, but who's complaining?"

    The clampdown appeared to mystify tourists, some of whom come specifically to Bethesda Fountain to hear the free, impromptu concerts.

    Tourist Zita Misley, a mother of three, said she'd noticed the "quiet zone" sign nearby, but hadn't quite got the point.

    "Oh, I thought they put 'quiet zone' so that we could listen to the music!" she said when told of the park's campaign."

    Source:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110612...20110612051411

    What ever happened to the 1st Amendment? This is public property, and now the government says you can't sing on it? Of course not too many complained when they banned smoking in Central Park. Now they've banned music. What will they ban next?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    What ever happened to the 1st Amendment? This is public property, and now the government says you can't sing on it? Of course not too many complained when they banned smoking in Central Park. Now they've banned music. What will they ban next?
    Free speech zones were commonly used by President George W Bush after the September 11, 2001 attacks and through the 2004 election. Free speech zones were set up by the Secret Service, who scouted locations where the U.S. president was scheduled to speak, or pass through. Officials targeted those who carried anti-Bush signs and escorted them to the free speech zones prior to and during the event. Reporters were often barred by local officials from displaying these protesters on camera or speaking to them within the zone.[3][4] Protesters who refused to go to the free speech zone were often arrested and charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct and/or resisting arrest.[16][17] A seldom-used federal law making it unlawful to "willfully and knowingly to enter or remain in ... any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting" has also been invoked.[18][19]
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

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  3. #3
    I wonder what actually motivated the ban. Did people start to complain or something?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardinkahnikov View Post
    I wonder what actually motivated the ban. Did people start to complain or something?
    No they did not. The article goes over that too.

    That's whats especially galling about these nanny state liberals, they are fixing 'problems' no one is even saying we have. And of course fixing them by taking away our rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    No they did not. The article goes over that too.

    That's whats especially galling about these nanny state liberals, they are fixing 'problems' no one is even saying we have. And of course fixing them by taking away our rights.
    LOL at it NOT being OK for the government to tell you where to play music, but it being PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE for the government to tell you who you can marry.

    What a maroon.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    LOL at it NOT being OK for the government to tell you where to play music, but it being PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE for the government to tell you who you can marry.

    What a maroon.
    I never said they should be telling people who they can and cant marry. You put words in my mouth. Which liberals usually have to do to debate. Here is my stance on the issue, not what you say my stance is:

    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    My stance on all marriage is simple and has been stated more than once. It's none of the Governments business. They should not do things like set different tax policies for married vs unmarried households. Nowhere did I call for banning gay marriage.
    So please, debate on what I say. Thanks.

    One more thing. Why can't you just call a wrong a wrong? Why do you always have to play the 'But the other side does it too' card? And if you even read your own source, it said "barred by local officials". And also, who put said laws into effect? Again, from your source, "Free speech zones were set up by the Secret Service". You can't even blame the right guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    I never said they should be telling people who they can and cant marry. You put words in my mouth. Which liberals usually have to do to debate. Here is my stance on the issue, not what you say my stance is:



    So please, debate on what I say. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Whatever people want to do in their bedrooms with other adults (no matter how disgusting it may be), is their business. But legal marriage should be between a man and a woman.

    hmmmmmmmm

    One more thing. Why can't you just call a wrong a wrong? Why do you always have to play the 'But the other side does it too' card? And if you even read your own source, it said "barred by local officials". And also, who put said laws into effect? Again, from your source, "Free speech zones were set up by the Secret Service". You can't even blame the right guy.
    LOL. Coming from the king of the "But Liberals do it, too!" card.

    Did you even read it, or are you just scanning for argument points? Local Officials barred reporters from the Free Speech Zones. And the CIA was setting up the zones on Bush's orders.
    Last edited by MasterKiller; 06-13-2011 at 01:04 PM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    LOL. Coming from the king of the "But Liberals do it, too!" card.
    Whatever. Let's stay on topic; what's your take/opinion on the banning of music in Central Park? Do you support the ban?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Did you even read it, or are you just scanning for argument points? Local Officials barred reporters from the Free Speech Zones. And the CIA was setting up the zones on Bush's orders. Presumably, to avoid getting hit with the eggs like the last time he conned his way into office.
    Of course I read it, you saw me quote it. And unless I missed it, it didn't say a word about the CIA.

    And again, please show who ENACTED those 'free speech zones', not just who used them. You've brought Bush into the discussion, so please show where he enacted these laws you've brought up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    Whatever. Let's stay on topic; what's your take/opinion on the banning of music in Central Park? Do you support the ban?
    Freedom of expression also means freedom from expression. The government has an obligation to protect everyone's rights.

    Of course I read it, you saw me quote it. And unless I missed it, it didn't say a word about the CIA.

    And again, please show who ENACTED those 'free speech zones', not just who used them. You've brought Bush into the discussion, so please show where he enacted these laws you've brought up.
    Yeah, I was confusing my CIA thread with this one. Secret service.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Freedom of expression also means freedom from expression. The government has an obligation to protect everyone's rights.
    So do you support the music ban in Central Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Yeah, I was confusing my CIA thread with this one. Secret service.
    But Bush doesn't make Secret Service policy. So you can't blame him on this one.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    So do you support the music ban in Central Park?
    I see nothing wrong with having designated areas for music and areas for no music, which is what they did. They didn't ban it outright.

    But Bush doesn't make Secret Service policy. So you can't blame him on this one.
    at the president not commanding the secret service. Ay any rate....

    The Supreme Court upholds the Free Speech Zones. I was just pointing out that it's not just a "liberal"issue.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    at the president not commanding the secret service. Ay any rate....

    The Supreme Court upholds the Free Speech Zones. I was just pointing out that it's not just a "liberal"issue.
    He doesn't. Roll your eyes all you want, but facts are facts. The President does not command the Secret Service. If you believe he does, please provide links showing he does.

    Banning things people like is more often done by liberals. Which group banned Happy Meals and is now going after circumcision?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    He doesn't. Roll your eyes all you want, but facts are facts. The President does not command the Secret Service. If you believe he does, please provide links showing he does.

    Banning things people like is more often done by liberals. Which group banned Happy Meals and is now going after circumcision?
    You are wrong. The president is boss of all executives including the Director of the USSS Mark J. Sullivan, who is a federal executive and therefore, Obama is his boss along with all other executives appointed in federal service. ALL of them.

    To be fair, the president cannot disband the USSS. that would be up to Congress.

    I'm a canadian, and it didn't take long for me to read this information as available on the web from various .gov sites, wikis and articles regarding the question.
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  14. #14
    The President does not set Secret Service policies. MK cited 'free speech zones' used by President Bush. But it wasn't Bush who created the zones.

    Of course why Bush was brought into a discussion on music banning in Central Park is beyond me. But since he was, we at least need to get the facts straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    The President does not set Secret Service policies. MK cited 'free speech zones' used by President Bush. But it wasn't Bush who created the zones.

    Of course why Bush was brought into a discussion on music banning in Central Park is beyond me. But since he was, we at least need to get the facts straight.
    nobody said anything about policy. Not even me.
    USSS mandate is overseen by Congress.
    The executive branch of all federal offices answer to the potus.

    Mark J. Sullivan is the executive director of the USSS and his direct line of reporting is to the POTUS.
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