For Gene and the mods...

[GeneChing]

But there will always be trolls. It's a forum, open to the public, on the web. To expect a forum of this magnitude to be troll-free is like a ring-fighter imagining his street fight opponent won't be armed.

Obviously, I'm okay with the trolls, for the most part. The average member is a poor writer, and as a professional writer, that gives me the same advantage as being a professional martial artist here.

What has always struck me as amusing about these flame wars is how crude the manner of combat is. Perhaps it's because most people are poor writers. However, most attacks are simply attack>counterattack. There's no parry/riposte, no countertime, no second intention. I would expect more from the martial arts community. I find this rather disappointing.

so now starting discussion on the discussion forum is a banable offense?

In all honesty, bothering me when I have to get work done is a bannable offense. I have several things I must get off my desk today and I haven't been able to get things going with all this kerfuffle. If I have more time, I'd get things more sorted, but when I'm pressed for time, I just ban whoever is in my face and sort it out later.

[lkfmdc]

In all honesty, bothering me when I have to get work done is a bannable offense.

you need a sign, like "gone fishing" but more like "gene is buried in papers"

[GeneChing]

you need a sign, like "gone fishing" but more like "gene is buried in papers"

How about 'Gene's gone out for nachos'?

Actually, I'm always pretty busy here. My position isn't an honest living. No rest for the wicked.

[Dale Dugas]

Let me know if there is anything I can do.

[Lucas]

Lucas: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?

Actually, wrong. By comparing the European Swallow with bird species of similar body mass, we can estimate that the swallow beats its wings 18 times a second with an amplitude of 18 cm:


Species Body mass Frequency Amplitude
Zebra Finch 13 g 27 Hz 11 cm
European Swallow 20 g ≈ 18 Hz? ≈ 18 cm?
Downy Wood****** 27 g 14 Hz 29 cm
Budgerigar 34 g 14 Hz 15 cm

Note that even the tiny Zebra Finch flaps its wings no more than 27 times a second while cruising.

If we ignore body mass and look only at bird species with a similar wingspan, we can estimate an average frequency of 14 beats per second and an amplitude of 23 cm:

Species Wingspan Frequency Amplitude
Budgerigar 27 cm 14 Hz 15 cm
European Swallow ≈ 28–30 cm ≈ 14 Hz? ≈ 23 cm?
Downy Wood****** 31 cm 14 Hz 29 cm
European Starling 35 cm 14 Hz 26 cm

By averaging all 6 values, we can estimate that an average European Swallow flies at cruising speed with a frequency of roughly 15 beats per second, and an amplitude of roughly 22 cm.

[GeneChing]

Let me know if there is anything I can do.

Can you spank Lucas? He's been a very naughty ninja. Very naughty.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Gene, you know my views on banning, I don't agree with it.
That said when thread after thread is contaminated by personal issues then, what choice do we have?

[Lucas]

Can you spank Lucas? He's been a very naughty ninja. Very naughty.

dale better grow some boobs lose the johnson shrink to half his size and get some hair before he can spank this ninja!!

[ShortBridge]

I'm not a major contributor to this forum, it's something I wanted to try out this year and I haven't decided yet if it's something that is useful to me or not.

I did sign up though because I was interested in getting to know people who did what I do and things that are parallel to it. I have a tiny bit to share and a lot to learn. I've been training in various forms since the 1970s, if you count boxing, which most people do. I saw the first 5 UFCs when they used to be single round, no weight class mixed martial arts tournaments and they changed my thinking to a great degree. I spent some time following in a nationally respected MMA gym who trained some of that second batch of UFC fighters. I spend a few years doing Muay Thai and JuJitsu.

Somehow, I discovered and was surprised by Wing Chun at a small, non-commercial school with no sign in a city that I used to live in. It became the center of what I have been doing since 1999. I've met and branched out a bit into what I consider to be related southern styles. I love it and it's what I do. I would love to exchange with other people who share my interest.

Here's the problem, I join Kung Fu Magazine forums for that purpose, I see that there are sub-fora for Kung Fu, Southern Chinese Martial Arts, Wing Chun and MMA and street fighting. I go to the appropriate forums and either start or jump into a discussion that interests me. Seems reasonable, right? But, every one of those threads ends up with someone confronting us from and MMA standpoint. What we do is bull****, we're llarpers, we're lying, we're somehow perpetrating crimes against the innocent and unsuspecting public and must be stopped. I'm just ignorant about the profound truths of MMA training.

So, I could argue that I'm not, but that doesn't work, someone once claimed that I was lying about having ever boxed. How do I respond to that? Pictures from a 1980 Golden Gloves tournament, what would that prove it could be anyone, right? You want said picture, give me a minute on google and I'll find something that will work. Now will you let me ask questions about Southern Mantis in peace?

The bottom line is this. I'd love to have an international forum to exchange ideas on kung fu with other people rather than just the people in my club. If this isn't that place, where is? My leaving is no big loss, some of you guys have been here for years. But, there is no reason to come here if I can't read about and discuss TCMAs.

One more comment: I'm not suggesting that who I am is important or relevant. I assure you all that it's not and I'm not, but the point is that no one knows. Some of the people confronting me and people like me weren't alive when I was in my first ring or on my first mat. Some of the worst offenders have been training for a year. One guy HAVEN'T STARTED YET, he was just watching TV and then confronting people about their life's work. I've chosen the path that I've chosen and I'm not selling anything, so it's confusing and disappointing to me that on a forum that seems to have been build for people just like me that my choices are somehow received as a affront to decency.

The fact is, I've not logged on in a while for these exact reasons. Last weekend, I traveled with my sifu and some training partners to train with the head of our linage. I came home really inspired and excited and decided to give these forums another try. 3 days later I'm in a wing chun discussion and I get confronted about the "truths" of MMA and why won't I just admit that there is no value to how I train?

If it is somehow offensive to talk about wing chun in the wing chun forum, then there's no reason for me to go there. I never talk about wing chun in the MMA forum. If you knew me in real life, you'd know that I'm not the type to push my beliefs on people or spend any time letting someone push theirs on me. I'm not going to do it on-line either.

[GeneChing]

Jon_Ray_Brooks, there are plenty of decent discussions here, not to mention a lot of archived news. You just need to have a high noise filter because it's an open forum with some very noisy members.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Jon_Ray,

Just don't respond to those who don't interest you or you find too immature or argumentative.

I understand that you can start discussing something with someone and you think it will be a fine, informative, discussion and then all of a sudden you find that you have been drawn into an argument and trying to explain your views to someone who you will never reach! When you find that happening, just stop responding to that person. If necessary ignore them the next time they try to engage you in conversation.

Since most of us here are martial artists of some kind, there is an inherent competitive, testosterone drive under current.

I've been here about 11 or 12 years now and you will rarely find me engaging in any conversation in a meaningful manner. I used to, but I have found it to be mostly unproductive, so I just goof off now!

I am not saying you should goof off like I do, I am just giving a little personal background. Now this forum is mostly a pastime for me. Something to do and hang out with like minded people. I'll argue from time to time too, but I consider it part of my training and never take it seriously. Most of these guys are good guys even if you disagree and argue at times. If we met each other we would have a great time training and goofing off making fun of each other. That is what guys do!

[GeneChing]

Most of these guys are good guys even if you disagree and argue at times. If we met each other we would have a great time training and goofing off making fun of each other. That is what guys do!

Well said, Scott. I've had the honor of meeting many of the members here face-to-face, even the psycho ones like uki , and in person, they are almost always good people, serious about their practice but willing to have fun here. I look forward to meeting more forum members. Yes, yes, even the psycho ones.

[Scott R. Brown]

Well said, Scott. I've had the honor of meeting many of the members here face-to-face, even the psycho ones like uki , and in person, they are almost always good people, serious about their practice but willing to have fun here. I look forward to meeting more forum members. Yes, yes, even the psycho ones.

Hey EVERYBODY!!! (said in Elmo's voice)

GENE CHING knows who I am!

Now I'm famous! Expect to see my own monthly article in the magazine real soon!

(Sorry I can't be serious and thoughtful for too long or my head will explode! And I don't have a lot of confidence I can count on TGY to come clean up the mess!)

[mawali]

But there will always be trolls. It's a forum, open to the public, on the web. To expect a forum of this magnitude to be troll-free is like a ring-fighter imagining his street fight opponent won't be armed.

What has always struck me as amusing about these flame wars is how crude the manner of combat is. Perhaps it's because most people are poor writers. However, most attacks are simply attack>counterattack. There's no parry/riposte, no countertime, no second intention. I would expect more from the martial arts community. I find this rather disappointing.

Mr Gene Ching
You are a scholar of the highest calibre!

Your description is the best I have see in that I have been on a few forums to the extent that I was made a troll (anointed as it were) because I happened to disagree with a few of the characters on their training while being respectful and humble in my responses. Never once did I disparage any of the personalities but I am reminded of the adage that because one is a vegetarian one does not expect that the bull will charge!

[YouKnowWho]

But, every one of those threads ends up with someone confronting us from and MMA standpoint.

I feel exactly the same way as you do.

I don't argue with those MMA guys any more. I'll just response with the following "cut and paste":
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We all know that everything that

- TCMA does is bad.
- MMA does is good.

We TCMA guys should all get some ropes, find a quite place, and hang ourselves.

Anything else?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do I respond to that? Pictures from a 1980 Golden Gloves tournament,...

The problem is those people who asked your prove had never proved themselves. If you find a

- demo youtube clip, people will say that your demo partner just let you to beat him up.
- tournament youtube clip, people will say that tournament is not the same as street fight.
- street fight youtube clip, people will say that since you didn't kill your opponent, your IP is weak.
- street fight youtube clip and you did kill your opponent, people won't say anything but cops will knock on your door soon.

If you don't post any youtube clips, people will want your prove. If you do, people will say that you are showing off and trying to advertise yourself online. It's a lose-lose situation.

In this forum, it's better to just touch the surface of any subjects and move on. For example,

A: What's 6DFV?
B: 6DFV is the force that can be used to beat the sh!t out of you.

If people interest in more detail, you can then go a bit deeper. If people just want to argue against you no matter what you have said, this surface level discussion should be just good enough for this forum.