Jow for iron palm conditioning- needed, waste of time, or counterproductive?

[faxiapreta]

no, of course not, and that is not what we're saying. Of course, if you want to run off on a tangent, enjoy.
Jow is absorbed into the skin, at the location of the injury. You bruise your hand, you rub jow into your hand.
You have sore muscles, you rub Jeng Guat Soi or icy hot, or arnica gel into that affected area. You certainly don't ingest it.
Congratulations, you started an intelligent topic, and by your involvement in it, brought it right down to stupid again.
Attaboy.

Jow is does not pass through the skin in anything more than negligible amounts at the most.

Of course you don't ingest them. That's because they would pass into the bloodstream and start to shut down the kidneys and liver.

Same reason you wouldn't inject them at the site of the injury.

Same reason they don't poison you when you rub them on the skin, because they stay outside.

[faxiapreta]

dude, up your meds....seriously.
You need to stay on topic. You seem so intent on "being right," that you take things out of context and harp on it, and go off on tangents.

No, what I do is take things to their logical conclusion. Then you start calling it stupid because your argument falls apart.

It's called logical reasoning and critical thinking. You should try it some time instead of blindly following "tradition" because some ancient and ill-informed people hundreds or thousands of years ago thought they knew the way the world worked.

[TenTigers]

Jow is does not pass through the skin in anything more than negligible amounts at the most.
.

Good point- Which is why, when you have a bruise or soft tissue injury, you rub the jow (along with the proper massage techniques) several times a day, for several days-until the injury is healed. You don't simply dab it on once like cologne and expect it to work.

[faxiapreta]

Good point- Which is why, when you have a bruise or soft tissue injury, you rub the jow (along with the proper massage techniques) several times a day, for several days-until the injury is healed. You don't simply dab it on once like cologne and expect it to work.

The jow has nothing to do with the healing.

[TenTigers]

The jow has nothing to do with the healing.

and you say this why?

[faxiapreta]

and you say this why?

Because it is not being absorbed. Any "healing" effect comes from the massage (and even that is negligible) and placebo effects.

Healing time is the same without these treatments, other than what you are going to see from the massage and any placebo effect.

[IronWeasel]

At least one person has claimed that jow is an important part of IP conditioning. He also claimed that the improper use of it was responsible for making his bones brittle by leaching the calcium from the bones.

This brings up a question:

There are already scientifically proven methods for hardening and increasing bone density. Simply hitting harder and harder surfaces or lifting heavier and heavier weights in a progressive manner has been shown conclusively to increase bone density.

Why would one want to use a substance that has no scientific evidence of working, while at the same time, potentially weakening the very structure one is trying to harden? Why not simply go with the proven method without adding in the potentially dangerous, unproven method?

Not dangerous for the several generations that have trained this (our) way.

Proven by many to be safe and successful.

The right "jow" and proper training are necessary.

Our teacher has trained his hane without medicine (Karate), and then with medicine and a better method (Iron Palm). The difference is night and day.

[TenTigers]

Because it is not being absorbed. Any "healing" effect comes from the massage (and even that is negligible) and placebo effects.

Healing time is the same without these treatments, other than what you are going to see from the massage and any placebo effect.

ok, we already "discussed" how jow does in fact get absorbed, what the herbs in it do, and now you are saying that the massage methods don't have any effect on healing?(new tangent coming..)
Hmmm. Ok, I'll bite. What are you basing this on-any personal experience? You sound so convinced.
Before you answer, let me mention that when I say, "massage, " I am not speaking of simply rubbing it in. There are specific tui-na methods used to properly apply and massage the jow, depending on the type of injury.

[Razaunida]

Speaking of stupid...

Maybe, gasp, putting herbs on your skin has absolutely nothing to do with bone remodeling.

You know...because you assume to know, yet have not researched the topic. You want the opinion of others so you can tell them that they are wrong.

Perhaps you are a waste of oxygen and in person I bet you are a bitach. I bet you cower and hold the pockets of better men.

[faxiapreta]

ok, we already "discussed" how jow does in fact get absorbed, what the herbs in it do, and now you are saying that the massage methods don't have any effect on healing?(new tangent coming..)
Hmmm. Ok, I'll bite. What are you basing this on-any personal experience? You sound so convinced.
Before you answer, let me mention that when I say, "massage, " I am not speaking of simply rubbing it in. There are specific tui-na methods used to properly apply and massage the jow, depending on the type of injury.

Jow does not get absorbed in any appreciable amounts... which is probably a good thing.

I don't believe I've ever seen one peer-reviewed scientific study showing that massage increases healing time.

Please point me to any you have seen.

[faxiapreta]

You know...because you assume to know, yet have not researched the topic. You want the opinion of others so you can tell them that they are wrong.

Perhaps you are a waste of oxygen and in person I bet you are a bitach. I bet you cower and hold the pockets of better men.

Methinks the person who simply sits back and snipes is the cowardly beotch, but I digress.

[Razaunida]

I don't believe I've ever seen one peer-reviewed scientific study showing that massage increases healing time.

Please point me to any you have seen.

Go look by yourself you lazy ass. You have google. I have seen many such articles...you don't look and don't read.

[faxiapreta]

Go look by yourself you lazy ass. You have google. I have seen many such articles...you don't look and don't read.

Sure, I'll do the work. Give me the specific search terms that you are looking for.

[IronWeasel]

ok, we already "discussed" how jow does in fact get absorbed, what the herbs in it do, and now you are saying that the massage methods don't have any effect on healing?(new tangent coming..)
Hmmm. Ok, I'll bite. What are you basing this on-any personal experience? You sound so convinced.
Before you answer, let me mention that when I say, "massage, " I am not speaking of simply rubbing it in. There are specific tui-na methods used to properly apply and massage the jow, depending on the type of injury.

Well....I posted before I read the entire thread.

So....for everyone else reading this semi-troll thread:

1) Jow (or IP medicine, rather) is protective. Use it.

2) Some people have trained BOTH ways and have concluded that a gradual IP method with proper IP medicine (not Dit Da Jow) is better.

3) Alcohol DOES enhance permeability of compounds through the skin. (Research transdermal patches.)

4) IP delivers a harder hit than non-IP.

5) I will demonstrate #4 on OP anytime within my tri-state area.

6) Ask Dale Dugas, Plumdragon or Teetsao about herbs.

7) OP, what is the name of your female World of Warcraft character?

[Razaunida]

Sure, I'll do the work. Give me the specific search terms that you are looking for.

gu sui bu, ru xiang, mo yao, hong hua, They are in almost every jow recipe.

Transdermal application information is in the people's pharmacopeia and there are copies available in English and many patches put out through pharmaceutical companies..I would assume they follow the same pharmaceutical guidelines.

There is also internal and external training wine. I used one to heal a joint injury.