Jow for iron palm conditioning- needed, waste of time, or counterproductive?

[faxiapreta]

Yes this is true... Punching power is derived thru proper training, structure etc etc. However, punching power can be increased if you're hands are denser (If you already know how to hit properly). And Mean denser thru IP training.

All styles should teach proper punching structure. All styles should have some type of bag work. All styles have ring time. I don't care if you are doing Boxing, Kung Fu, MMA, Karate, BBJ whatever.

Not every style needs to add IP to there system but, don't knock peeps who put it in theirs. It is basically a different type of Conditioning.

ginosifu

I'm not knocking anyone who puts IP training into their system.

I'm knocking people who make claims (i.e. ruptured organs, splitting skulls, having extra punching power) with zero evidence of these claims.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The second part of your statement kind of disqualifies the first part, don't you think.

I've never known any boxer or mma guy who had any concern about hitting hard without protection in a street fight. Most people hit as hard as they can in that situation. The last thing they are worried about is if their hand might hurt afterwards.

I agree, most sport combat guys hit as hard as they can and worry about the rest later.
Of course that is until they bust up their hand.
Which is still pretty rare, though it does happen.
IP just address that issue rather than ignores it.

The real issue is does IP give you some sort of "super punch" that gives you that extra edge.
Deep down that is THE point, isn't it?

[faxiapreta]

I agree, most sport combat guys hit as hard as they can and worry about the rest later.
Of course that is until they bust up their hand.
Which is still pretty rare, though it does happen.
IP just address that issue rather than ignores it.

The real issue is does IP give you some sort of "super punch" that gives you that extra edge.
Deep down that is THE point, isn't it?

Actually, there's another point, which is the claim that boxers, MMA guys, etc break their hands in fights, but people who do IP training don't.

This is simply another one of those baseless, zero-evidence based claims.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Actually, there's another point, which is the claim that boxers, MMA guys, etc break their hands in fights, but people who do IP training don't.

This is simply another one of those baseless, zero-evidence based claims.

Well, to be honest, most IP people I know tend to use the open hand so...
That said, I know of at least on that did break his hand in a fight.
Of course Ip does NOT = unbreakable and there are many types of IP, just as there are many types of hand conditioning.
You know Tak Kubota right?
Prime example of hand conditoning in the JMA venue, that type I used to do in Kyokushin.
I can honestly say that the IP type is better, less damaging and more effective, BUT longer in the process.

[faxiapreta]

Well, to be honest, most IP people I know tend to use the open hand so...

Which would tend to increase the probability of finger dislocations, which, I don't believe IP addresses.

[Northwind]

I'm so surprised you guys are actually discussing with this guy. There will never, and I mean NEVER, be a time when people like this will say anything remotely close to "Oh, I see. You're right. Thank you - I've learned something new and have a new perspective." unless it's complete sarcasm. These idiots are out to troll, and whatever you say will never be enough - they are out to say you're wrong about anything that does not measure up to their pre-established personal beliefs about any given topic.

I'm going through a similar battle over on MAP (martialartsplanet), where they're going on and on about nothing within TCM works - prove it, double-blind studies, mysticism yadda yadda bs. It's nothing but an effort in frustration.

[faxiapreta]

I'm so surprised you guys are actually discussing with this guy. There will never, and I mean NEVER, be a time when people like this will say anything remotely close to "Oh, I see. You're right. Thank you - I've learned something new and have a new perspective." unless it's complete sarcasm. These idiots are out to troll, and whatever you say will never be enough - they are out to say you're wrong about anything that does not measure up to their pre-established personal beliefs about any given topic.

I'm going through a similar battle over on MAP (martialartsplanet), where they're going on and on about nothing within TCM works - prove it, double-blind studies, mysticism yadda yadda bs. It's nothing but an effort in frustration.

Asking for evidence is part of what makes a person able to think critically.

Of course there will be a time when a person will say you are right. Simply show some convincing evidence. Showing convincing evidence usually changes a logically thinking person's mind.

Not being able show evidence simply provides evidence that your argument is based on smoke and mirrors.

[Northwind]

Asking for evidence is part of what makes a person able to think critically.

Of course there will be a time when a person will say you are right. Simply show some convincing evidence. Showing convincing evidence usually changes a logically thinking person's mind.

Not being able show evidence simply provides evidence that your argument is based on smoke and mirrors.

LMAO
Spoken like a true troll in a TCMA forum doing the science dance. My @$$ about the "of course there will be a time when a person will say you are right". If they even come close to seeing the fault of their view, they will simply vanish from the forum.

How bout you just take up any of the offers to get your "EVIDENCE" first-hand? Even then, you'd be getting up, dusting yourself off and saying something idiotic like "well, it's placebo" etc...

[TenTigers]

Tak Kubota's hand is a foot.....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Tak Kubota's hand is a foot.....

Indeed.
As for why I discuss things with faixa or anyone:
To learn from them and, if possible, for them to learn from me.

[faxiapreta]

How bout you just take up any of the offers to get your "EVIDENCE" first-hand? Even then, you'd be getting up, dusting yourself off and saying something idiotic like "well, it's placebo" etc...

Been there, done that.

The fact is, I already know from experience people with IP training do not hit harder than a boxer or mma fighter, although they like to believe they do.

Rather than "offering to do demonstrations", the obvious and simple thing to do is for them to step into a mma or boxing gym and show themselves knocking people down.

This would be simple and easy, and much easier to do that trying to meet with annonymous people from the internet.

Of course, any thinking person can clearly see why they don't do this.

[bawang]

john f springer did iron palm and got ground pounded by bullshido guys

[sanjuro_ronin]

john f springer did iron palm and got ground pounded by bullshido guys

One guy, just to be clear.

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3HcgR2_vA

[faxiapreta]

One guy, just to be clear.

Please reference any other IP guy who stepped up to the plate and demonstrated his "abilities" against someone who was fighting back.