The end goal?

[Jubei1]

I'm sure the majority of ppl here have heard that the end goal of a martial art is to not fight.
To further this belief I have heard stories of a great martial artist who witnessed a man talk another man down from fighting then stating that "that was martial arts."

My question is if the end goal of a martial art is not to fight and use any other method to avoid a physical conflict then why do we spend countless hours performing forms, stepping, punching, shifting, sensitivity drills…etc Would it not be better to study communication, conflict resolution and de-escalation techniques?

[lance]

I'm sure the majority of ppl here have heard that the end goal of a martial art is to not fight.
To further this belief I have heard stories of a great martial artist who witnessed a man talk another man down from fighting then stating that "that was martial arts."

My question is if the end goal of a martial art is not to fight and use any other method to avoid a physical conflict then why do we spend countless hours performing forms, stepping, punching, shifting, sensitivity drills…etc Would it not be better to study communication, conflict resolution and de-escalation techniques?

Jubel1 hello , okay when you really learn martial arts you know how to hurt or kill right ? Because of the fact that you practice when you when time allows . now it ' s also good to talk yourself out of fighting with anybody which is right , but if the person does ' nt want to comply with you , and he attacks you for example for no reason at all . Then you by all means have the right to defend yourself . Which is what I would do myself . And I do have to admit too , talking yourself out of fighting does ' nt always work , but you can try , warning the person . But other than that we do have the right to defend ourself . Because Jubel , whatever I ' m telling you now is the samething I would do myself too . and continue to practice your drills . The forms are for traditional purposes , but it ' s the applications
that ' s going to really save your life . Depending on what kind of martial arts
you ' re practicing . If the person is just going to attack you , then you have to do what you really need to do to really defend yourself . No one has the right to attack you for no reason at all , so just use your own judgment in any situations .

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm sure the majority of ppl here have heard that the end goal of a martial art is to not fight.
To further this belief I have heard stories of a great martial artist who witnessed a man talk another man down from fighting then stating that "that was martial arts."

My question is if the end goal of a martial art is not to fight and use any other method to avoid a physical conflict then why do we spend countless hours performing forms, stepping, punching, shifting, sensitivity drills…etc Would it not be better to study communication, conflict resolution and de-escalation techniques?

The end goal of MA is to SURVIVE a fight.

[ShortBridge]

The end goal of MA is to SURVIVE a fight.

Well, said. Whether by avoidance or domination.

That statement always bugged me when I was younger "when you learn, you won't have to fight". Still does a little bit, but here's what I've noticed, through training I develop a comfort level with things like range and position. Where I might have reached "fight or flight" before, now I think "I've got time" and maybe I can change or control those parameters enough that we never get there.

But, in the deepest, darkest part of my soul, I'm fine with fighting if it comes to that. I know myself well enough to know that it won't unless it needs to, in which case, no regrets.

[k gledhill]

Avoid, rather than check. Check, rather than hurt. Hurt, rather than maim. Maim, rather than kill. For all life is precious, nor can any be replaced. So, avoid rather than check...etc.

[wtxs]

Avoid, rather than check. Check, rather than hurt. Hurt, rather than maim. Maim, rather than kill. For all life is precious, nor can any be replaced. So, avoid rather than check...etc.

In the event your chance of survival is zip, and maim is not an option, you must resort to kill in order to survive, than kill.

[Tom Kagan]

I'm sure the majority of ppl here have heard that the end goal of a martial art is to not fight.
To further this belief I have heard stories of a great martial artist who witnessed a man talk another man down from fighting then stating that "that was martial arts."

My question is if the end goal of a martial art is not to fight and use any other method to avoid a physical conflict then why do we spend countless hours performing forms, stepping, punching, shifting, sensitivity drills…etc Would it not be better to study communication, conflict resolution and de-escalation techniques?

The opponent in front of you is a red herring. When you understand this, you will understand how you constructed a strawman (wooden man?).

Fighting is the context, not a means to the end to which you refer.

[Jubei1]

Thanks everyone for contributing to my post, you have given me much food for thought.

Tom,
" u will understand how you constructed a strawman (wooden man?)."
"

That’s a very interesting statement. Can you please help me to understand the meaning.

p.s. did you train in the main Ny branch? I have met Sifu Pajil & Sifu Chan and I am impressed by their kindness and knowledge of VT. You are lucky to have trained in that environment.

[chusauli]

Martial arts is study of conflict - to contain it, to finish it, stop it before it starts, or even avoid it, as well as looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the body and weapons.

If you survive, your martial art survives, provided you can transmit it to others.

[Hendrik]

the end goal of couse is destruction.
and destruction is a new beginning of construction.


Thus, martial art is = the art of Destroy.
Thus, no matter how effective it is it is not something worth to boast because the world is a world of construction.


It is not the end goal which is the issue. it is to know when destruction is appropriet to carry out is the issue. For we dont want to play GOD to dictate the world. or subject to the karma of destruction we evoke.

[ShortBridge]

I love the book "Strong on Defense" and recommend it to everyone.

One of his main points is that unless you are military or law enforcement doing your job, your goal is always escape and survival. That doesn't mean you don't fight, he advocates that you do, viciously. But your goal is escape and survival. I'm on board.

[wolf3001]

Just my view on this but I feel training gives us the ability to survive a physical confrontation without serious injury. Someone who is good at it could avoid physically being injured by an attacker and if well trained could also use other techniques to subdue the attacker without to much harm. This to me is the highest form of martial art. You can't always talk people out of a fight and although communication skills are a good part of self defense I don't label them as martial in nature.

I was told Shaolin teaches and not in these exact words it is better to cause a bit of pain rather than maim. Better to maim than to kill and better to kill then be killed or allow others to be. I usually wont go out of my way to fight someone but im not all spiritual or philosophical about martial arts.

"I have a high art, I hurt with cruelty those who would damage me." - Archilochus, 650 B.C.

[Jansingsang]

Martial arts is study of conflict - to contain it, to finish it, stop it before it starts, or even avoid it, as well as looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the body and weapons.

If you survive, your martial art survives, provided you can transmit it to others.

Your Spot on the money Mr Chu. Reading it i immediately identified and visaulised from my own experience what you poetically conveyed Five stars, as the saying goes.. He who feels it knows it

[anerlich]

Just my view on this but I feel training gives us the ability to survive a physical confrontation without serious injury.

It might tip the odds more in your favour, but guarantees nothing.

Best avoid fighting, defeat is not the sole province of non martial artists.

[YouKnowWho]

My question is if the end goal of a martial art is not to fight and use any other method to avoid a physical conflict then why do we spend countless hours performing forms, stepping, punching, shifting, sensitivity drills…etc?

There is a big difference between "不為(Bu Wei) - you can do it but you don't want to do it" and "不能(Bu Neng) - you want to do it but you can't do it".