The end goal?

[mjw]

It's Karma, keeping positive energy plus a lot of taoist and confucist influence of CMA plus other things.

Why train all the punches etc?
I would say for preparedness discipline, confidence and health benefits of the exercise or that you like to do it????

[Tom Kagan]

Tom,
" u will understand how you constructed a strawman (wooden man?)."
"

That’s a very interesting statement. Can you please help me to understand the meaning.

What don't you understand about it?

[TenTigers]

There is a big difference between "不為(Bu Wei) - you can do it but you don't want to do it" and "不能(Bu Neng) - you want to do it but you can't do it".

aye, there's the rub.
Learning martial arts gives you the ability to deal with a confrontation, without your ego getting you in trouble.
When a child tries to hurt you, you don't go down to his level and smack him, you out maneuver him, mentally and/or physically. Likewise, when you have the ability to defend yourself, you don't need to prove anything, and it is easier to walk away.
There was a movie in the 70's interviewing various Martial Artists. it may have been called'Weaponless Warriors." Not sure, but there was a quote from a Martial Arist named Chakazulu, which I still use to this day;
"You can call me names, "pu$$y," Fa@@ot" whatever. I don't care. You put your hands on me, you're going to get hurt-bad."
I used to do personal protection, and I carried concealed. I never had to draw on anyone. Knowing that I had a gun, gave me the self-control not to use it, and use other means (my brain) not to resort to violence..

[YouKnowWho]

Learning martial arts gives you the ability to deal with a confrontation, without your ego getting you in trouble.

Learning MA is like to have a Walther PPK in your pocket. You know that you can gun down your opponent anytime you want to (you can do it). But since you may have to go to jail for the rest of your life for that, you just walk away (you don't want to do it).

I used to do personal protection, and I carried concealed. I never had to draw on anyone. Knowing that I had a gun, gave me the self-control not to use it, and use other means (my brain) not to resort to violence..

I did that once in my life. I told myself that in case any gun fight starts, I would run faster than the bullets. I had no intention to die for my temporary job that only paid $5 an hour (back in 1971).

[TenTigers]

I did that once in my life. I told myself that in case any gun fight starts, I would run faster than the bullets. I had no intention to die for my temporary job that only paid $5 an hour (back in 1971).

yep, it's not as glamorous as it sounded. My boss was working parties with Rod Stewart and Elton John, while I was stuck babysitting some rich ****** in his house in the Hamptons.
Oh well, it looked good on the resume'...

[Jubei1]

ten tigers,
"Learning martial arts gives you the ability to deal with a confrontation, without your ego getting you in trouble."

very well explained.

Tom,

I just never heard that statement before. what does it mean to make a "strawman?"

[CFT]

I just never heard that statement before. what does it mean to make a "strawman?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Jubei1]

Thank you CFT.

[metrosonus]

I personally just don't like the connotations of "so you don't have to fight". I was never the kind of person to get into a fight over being cut in line or something and I was fortunate enough not to have to grow up in an environment where it was necessary.

So in essence I think the phrase has an air of implying that something was wrong with you and you needed martial arts as some sort of juvie boot camp for an attitude adjustment.

And that's honestly where I think the phrase comes from, the 70's. Factories closed and suddenly urban social programs sprung up that tried to keep kids busy and it just happened to coincide with a flourishing interest in martial arts.

I think really it's one of those nuggets of folk sayings that we wrongly attribute to some credible source. The first time I ever heard the phrase was in the karate kid and then from people that saw the movie. I've never heard it spoken in a school or from someone else that practiced martial arts.

Quite rightly, the end point is to survive a fight. But it's also about the journey and what we learn about ourselves along the way in the process.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I have had things said to me that would cause the average man to attemp to kill you. Ego is strong, but it is not the real problem. Fear, and the feeling of insecurity is what makes a person appear aggressive. It is a cover, a showing that you are not afraid, or that you are willing to fight. This can occur on both sides and a fight is imminent because there are no checks. If you feel secure in the fact that you can defend yourself you are a lot less likely to become loud and defensive. One must however show at least some self confidence or he will be construed as fearful or cowardly, which then attracts a more aggressive afront from an antagonist. We train and study our art in the case that we can not have a rational dialog with said antagonist. And rather than wait until things have escolated to the point to where your opponent has actually squared off at you, and you have lost all advantage of surprise at this point, and he is in full fight mode, you simply take the initiative and crush his skull at the very first hint that he is going to carry it to a higher level.
In reality, you should only concern yourself with your own welfare. If he is insistant upon carrying it to that higher level, then it is on him and not you. You have to do what you have to do, yet you must also cover your own behind. You have to know just how far to go. Remember, leave no witnesses.

[EternalSpring]

I'm sure the majority of ppl here have heard that the end goal of a martial art is to not fight.
To further this belief I have heard stories of a great martial artist who witnessed a man talk another man down from fighting then stating that "that was martial arts."

My question is if the end goal of a martial art is not to fight and use any other method to avoid a physical conflict then why do we spend countless hours performing forms, stepping, punching, shifting, sensitivity drills…etc Would it not be better to study communication, conflict resolution and de-escalation techniques?

I look at it as similar to the reasons why countries have armies and other fighting forces. The goal of having such forces is not to simply just kill mass amounts of people, but if the need to fight arises, we want to be more than ready to take what comes our way. Communication skills, conflict resolution, and de-escalation techniques are good, but are not always guaranteed to work, especially if the aggressor is mentally and/or emotionally unstable. It is for these cases that we learn martial arts as well.

I once read that the "mar" in "martial arts" is in reference to Mars, the God of war. We always try to avoid war, but we know that it is inevitable at times. Once war/conflict begins, those who are unprepared will perish. In this sense, martial arts definitely is the art of sustaining and surviving oneself as well. Martial arts is best for use once the conflict has escalated to the level of a physical threat. All techniques of avoiding fights or de-escalating conflicts are manly best used before the physical threat has manifested in the form of combat.

That's my opinion on it

[YiQuanOne]

I would say a punch and a kick are a means to smash and crush your own ego.

Once you have done that then you do not need to prove anything to yourself or to anyone else because you are secure with yourself.

[anerlich]

There is no "end goal". You can follow a philosophy or religion, and apply that to training, but it isn't a necessary part of it.

My goals with training change and have changed from year to year. Becoming a Bhodisattva is not one of them. If I had an "end goal" and achieved it, what would I do then?

This stuff, and humans, if they view themselves realistically, operate on multiple levels, from basic and brutish to cerebral and "spiritual", if that means anything in the context.

You get confidence and self-control, and a realistic self-image from challenging yourself, and dealing successfully with challenging situations.

Martial skill is arguably one of the least important attributes for surviving a violent crime.

Touch wood, I've been able to deal with recent potential violence through engaging with the agressors verbally and in one recent case via non-verbal posturing. I guess I must have achieved the OP's end game. No way I've finished MA though, not even close.

MA training, TCMA, ITCMA, or whatever, is not sufficient to become a better person.

What do you think the "end game" is for a professional warrior, say a member of the armed forces or police?

[jesper]

There is no "end goal". You can follow a philosophy or religion, and apply that to training, but it isn't a necessary part of it.

What do you think the "end game" is for a professional warrior, say a member of the armed forces or police?

To get safely home in time for tea

[anerlich]

To get safely home in time for tea

Good answer.