females in traditional chinese martial arts

[Jian]

hi folks,

the times are changing and as we've seen at the recent tiger claw
tournament in san jose.. a strong presence of female martial artists. i also have a question about how supportive this space is for gay/lesbian folks.

two questions:
1. what do you think is the role of female martial artists in traditional
chinese martial arts?

2. is this a community open to gay/lesbian martial artists?

various opinions i've heard and inferred through observation:

- women are welcome but really it's the men that authentically carry on the lineage of our ancestors
- female martial artists are appreciated because they are feminine and sexy
- women are warriors just like men- take them seriously and promote them if they qualify
- ooh, lesbians with swords. hot.
- gay is fine as long as they stay away from me.
- wish we had more female participants
- who cares about gender and sexual orientation. this is a new era and as long as they care about the art that's all that matters.

any thoughts?

thanks,
jian

[David Jamieson]

1. to be martial artists

2. sexual orientation doesn't come into play in martial arts

[Lucas]

i think the answer will vary depending on who you pose the question to.

here is my answer:

In a martial art training center, the focus is on training your martial art. There is no sexual atmosphere involved (this is how i view things of how i work and how i believe they should be in an environment that i participate in, and of course not how everyone else views or does things). Unless someone is quite very obviously gay or is in the habbit of advertising such, you would never know what sexual orientation your training partners hold. We do not go to the gym to have sexual relations.

Women do indeed have their place within the martial arts world. There have always been females interested in martial arts. Granted the vast majority of practitioners have been and currently are men, you do see a rising amount of women becoming interested in various forms of martial arts. I can share with you one aspect of insight our female counterparts can give us men; When a woman is practicing skill along side men who generally will outweight and out muscle her, she will be required to fall back on proper technique more than men will. And even as such, many times men will 'cheat' when working with a woman, because we can. There is a certain degree of refinement you see in women that is the product of this, often times required, element of training to succeed against a male counterpart in a competative training environment.

[Jian]

thanks for sharing.. i had heard from an acquaintance that she was kicked out of her chinese martial arts school when she "came out" as gay- that was 10 years ago.

that it's a non-issue and that the prime focus is on the art and training is what i thought, as well.

i agree that women (and smaller framed/sized martial artists) do have to rely more on technique as we can't really muscle our way through

[-N-]

it's a non-issue and that the prime focus is on the art and training [...]

There you go.

[Razaunida]

Women are great for training kung fu, but men should train with men and women should train with women.

I don't care if this isn't PC or fair, the fact is that a man who is raised as a gentleman won't want to hit the woman. Women rarely have the intention to really train for combat. If they do, then great tremendous respect, but for the most part they weaken the training environment and they cause injuries.

Women don't know they have power and every time I have seen an injury in martial arts it has been from a woman. They overpower because they perceive themselves as weak compared to men.

A woman should train with men only after lots and lots of advanced training. Again..its not fair, but life isn't fair and that is my experience after being in martial arts since I was 5.

[Jian]

razaunida, thanks for sharing. no worries about political correctness.

in my experience, injuries seem to happen more readily when there's not enough monitoring or students forget to "check themselves". also, a beginner or white belt that doesn't know control when executing strikes.. that is also much physically stronger and does not know their own power.. can be quite dangerous. i've seen injuries from training caused by all genders. i find it helpful, when paired up with someone that does not use good control, to communicate what my boundaries are.. and remind them often.

i'm not sure how women, as a whole, weaken the training environment. that seems to be a matter of personal preference and more about the individual.

[Punch.HeadButt]

1. what do you think is the role of female martial artists in traditional
chinese martial arts?

Same as any other practitioner, as dictated by their own motivations and goals.

2. is this a community open to gay/lesbian martial artists?

Asking me? Absolutely. As others have said, sexual orientation has little to no bearing on someone's ability to devote themselves to any particular art form.

- women are welcome but really it's the men that authentically carry on the lineage of our ancestors

Not true at all. Speaking only from an art I practice, Sun Tai Chi, Sun Lu-Tang's daughter Sun Jian Yun was the style's grandmaster before her passing and she indeed passed the art to various disciples. I've heard/read of other styles being carried by female lineage holders, but I'm not educated enough on them to speak definitively.

- female martial artists are appreciated because they are feminine and sexy

**** straight! But implying that's the ONLY reason they're appreciated would be doing them a terrible injustice. Devotion to an art is devotion to an art, regardless of what is or isn't dangling between your legs.

- women are warriors just like men- take them seriously and promote them if they qualify

Not terribly clear on what you mean by "qualify", but if you're saying their standing is dictated by their ability, then I would agree. I'm sure there is still some degree of sexism rearing its ugly head, but I can't think of a single "-ism" to date that's been stamped out completely.

- ooh, lesbians with swords. hot.

Hear that? That's the sound of agreement.

- gay is fine as long as they stay away from me.

That's gonna be a very individual view point. I have no problems being around gay/lesbian folks (can I throw out the "I have gay friends" line without it being cliche?). I'll admit, I have felt very uncomfortable in the few instances where gay fellas have attempted flirtation, but they backed off after I made my orientation clear and I don't feel any ill-will or anything.

- wish we had more female participants

Of course. The better the ratio, the better the party.

- who cares about gender and sexual orientation. this is a new era and as long as they care about the art that's all that matters.

If you show respect for the art and its practitioners through your actions (we all know talk's easy), then you belong and deserve to have that respect returned.

[Chan Da-Wei]

I’ve trained with my teacher, a woman, for 8 years. I’ve never gone ‘toe to toe’ in a ring with her, but we've 'knocked arms' a lot over the years. The heaviness in her arms along with seamless transfer of power from her legs into her hands results in a fair amount of power, for anyone of any size or gender. The fact that she’s a woman, in her late 50’s and five foot zip makes it all the more interesting for me as a student.

Before I met her, I trained in other arts and encountered male teachers with not much substance to what they did.

Females may not be able to match it physically with their male peers. But there really is not much difference learning from a female vs learning from a male.

[ginosifu]

In my school there is no difference between male and female. Everyone has their their own personal goals. Everyone practices the same way, without gender preferences.

I will tell everyone (male and female) the same thing: " There always uncomfortable situations in class where a technique or drill is aimed at your groin or chest area, if you are unconfortable with this then don't join the school."

On that same note, I will tell everyone when we spar: "Male or Female... when I fight you, be prepared, I will hit or kick in the groin"

Most people realize this is just part of the training. There is no sexual inuendo, there is male macho attitude, This is just the life of a Martial Artist.

Gay / Lesbian:

This has nothing to do with training. No one tells me there sexual preference. (even if they are heterosexual). Sexual activity of any kind is unexceptable in the school. No dating other students in the Kwoon / No Drama.

ginosifu

[Jian]

thanks for your supportive responses. i made the erroneous assumption that there would be more sexism and conservative views on the training floor, especially from traditional chinese sifu's. i'm glad i'm wrong.

[Razaunida]

I really believe that women have higher potential in martial arts than men, but they need to be trained differently.

Women have an easier time ditching the ego, but a harder time with contact.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I really believe that women have higher potential in martial arts than men, but they need to be trained differently.

Women have an easier time ditching the ego, but a harder time with contact.

In my experience women don't have a problem hitting someone hard, they have a problem with getting hit back hard.

[V.O.R.]

Women have an easier time ditching the ego, but a harder time with contact.

There we go with the elitist attitude again......nice going.

[taai gihk yahn]

There we go with the elitist attitude again......nice going.

yeah, if he had couched his remarks in a racist manner, it would have been much better;

otoh, u guys seem awful similar in your posting styles...