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Thread: females in traditional chinese martial arts

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ View Post
    1. yes, female instructor may teach kids class and female class.

    such as female teaches female for bjj and mma

    guys tumble with guys etc

    2. none of our business.

    cool, thanks for sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Ray_Brooks View Post
    Jian,

    What about where you train? What has been your observation/experience on these issues?
    in my experience, shifus and students don't make any issue out of gay/lesbian and don't talk about it. but i do observe among TCMA folks some gayphobic teasing, most of which is light and schoolyard stuff that boys may do. also one of the ways folks are dissed is by calling them sissy or basically any other word that represents femaleness in a negative way. calling someone "gay" also to mean "weak". i have observed this on the forums here, as well.

    what i find ironic (particularly if they are asian men doing this), is that in the U.S. media asian men are not portrayed well and in fact feminized (they are portrayed as weak, feminine, nerdy, and have small *feet*.. except in kung fu movies.. and yet still, the predominant stereotype is not positive). they don't realize that their way of degrading others is actually also the very same language in mainstream U.S. which put asian men in a subservient or "feminized" position. being asian myself, i find the language problematic, but i get used to it.

    most don't really get into the games and just focus on training. i think the primary focus is on transmitting our beautiful art and culture and during these moments of training gender and everything else disappears. it's just the martial arts.

    i have had both excellent male and female instructors. if someone is detail oriented and can break down and explain things well, i thk they are qualified whatever the gender. in my exp, most schools in TCMA are majority male with a few females in the class.
    Last edited by Jian; 06-18-2011 at 03:44 PM.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    Frank is, at bottom, a gentleman!


    this is what makes this forum very Taoist - no good thread will go un-sidetracked; and the neat thing is, to make it all ok, all you have to do is...

    STEP!
    yeah, we decide where we put our energy. our intention feeds the direction
    Last edited by Jian; 06-18-2011 at 03:45 PM.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ View Post
    in history, there were also female generals.

    such as hua mu lan.

    and grand mother grand marshall mu gui yin of song dynasty.

    --

    something to think about.

    very true. tx for bringing in historical context

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jian View Post

    what i find ironic (particularly if they are asian men doing this), is that in the U.S. media asian men are not portrayed well and in fact feminized (they are portrayed as weak, feminine, nerdy, and have small *feet*.. except in kung fu movies.. and yet still, the predominant stereotype is not positive). they don't realize that their way of degrading others is actually also the very same language in mainstream U.S. which put asian men in a subservient or "feminized" position. being asian myself, i find the language problematic, but i get used to it.
    and instead of fighting the stereotype you dance in silk pajamas

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  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    and instead of fighting the stereotype you dance in silk pajamas
    not gonna bicker with you, bawang . we're on the same team.

  6. #171
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    i am fighting against asian stereotype. i bicep curl over 25 pounds, and my penus 7 cm long

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  7. #172
    She is fighting an Chinese stereotype...by thinking like a white soc major from the 80s.



    Hey everybody...love love, equality love....men and women are all the same. Every race has equal pros and cons...equal equal equal.

    That all sounds good...until the test scores come out, and kids complete playing basketball...and you get out into the world and see how things really are.

    Nature does not care for your ideals or how they blind you scientifically or academically. Nature just is.. Adapt or perish.
    Last edited by Razaunida; 06-18-2011 at 09:43 PM.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    i am fighting against asian stereotype. i bicep curl over 25 pounds, and my penus 7 cm long
    bawang, it's an interesting way to fight the stereotype, by choosing to highlight some hyper masculine standard to define masculinity... but i don't think it's necessary. for example, just b/c it's cool by some standards to be a big buff football player doesn't mean we asians have to do the same. chinese martial arts is both masculine/feminine, graceful, poetic and beautiful.. the chinese language as well. kick ass with grace. i think asian martial artists can be just as masculine by being their fit selves with normal body sizes.. just think in the history the leaders and fighters in chinese history.. do they really have to be tall and big bulky wrestler types to be masculine?

    i think actually east asian masculinity would appear more androgynous in some circles, and i think that is awesome. we don't have to conform.

    have you ever seen those short asian guys that make up for a lack of height by working out obsessively in the gym?they'll never be able to compete and bench press more and i think it's ridiculous, in my opinion. then they walk around acting all brutish and stuff. not impressive. when i think of masculine i think of kazushi sakuraba.. super modest and dignified.. he aint large (middleweight) compared to his opponents but fights with smarts and can use his intelligence to win over guys heavier than him. i'm sure there are other examples. i prefer that type of masculinity.. not beefcake, dumb, and brutish... get what i'm saying?
    Last edited by Jian; 06-18-2011 at 11:27 PM.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razaunida View Post
    台湾人看不懂汉字。 什么可能?
    To which Jian responded:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jian View Post
    ok since you just wrote a very interesting thread on rape prevention, albeit dark, i'll entertain you for a sec. yes taiwanese people can understand chinese. there.
    Taiwanese can but I'm not sure about Razaunida. . .

    Raza is a Latino who studied Chinese? I mean, his Chinese is decent but it still reads like it was written by a westerner. Handle mean "one race" or something like that so I'm going with American born Mexican who's Chinese on the inside, a Chinese tea-egg, brown on the outside and yellow in the middle.


  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by omarthefish View Post
    To which Jian responded:

    Taiwanese can but I'm not sure about Razaunida. . .

    Raza is a Latino who studied Chinese? I mean, his Chinese is decent but it still reads like it was written by a westerner. Handle mean "one race" or something like that so I'm going with American born Mexican who's Chinese on the inside, a Chinese tea-egg, brown on the outside and yellow in the middle.

    thanks for confirming. living in the U.S. and based on my exposure too... most native speakers of chinese i know, or those immigrate from chinese speaking countries later in life don't go around bragging that they know chinese.. to them it's just normal. it's easy to tell when one's level of chinese is "elementary".

    just a general comment about trolling and how i chose to handle it..

    a troll can be someone who got banned previously, a completely new member, a current established member who wants to take more risks through an alias.. it can be anyone and any made up identity.

    but anyway, once i've determined that someone's main purpose for posting is to make personal attacks and not contribute usefully to a discussion, i chose to ignore it. don't even bother reading past their name. once we've established who is a troll, i think personal attacks towards them is then a waste of time. it's too easy to for them to create a new name and do the same thing over again under a new alias. giving a troll more attention is exactly what they want. that's probably all i need to say about that. thanks for posting.
    Last edited by Jian; 06-19-2011 at 06:04 AM.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jian View Post
    chinese martial arts is both masculine/feminine, graceful, poetic and beautiful.. the chinese language as well.
    the culture today constantly being presented and advertise as "chinese" is remnant of the parasitic merchant class. the military and farming cultures have always been hypermasculine.
    Last edited by bawang; 06-19-2011 at 06:12 AM.

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  12. #177
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    my response to original post and definitions of masculinity

    reposting my last two comments...

    regarding my own experience to my original post (the first one)...

    in my experience, shifus and students don't make any issue out of gay/lesbian and don't talk about it. but i do observe among TCMA folks some gayphobic teasing, most of which is light and schoolyard stuff that boys may do. also one of the ways folks are dissed is by calling them sissy or basically any other word that represents femaleness in a negative way. calling someone "gay" also to mean "weak". i have observed this on the forums here, as well.

    what i find ironic (particularly if they are asian men doing this), is that in the U.S. media asian men are not portrayed well and in fact feminized (they are portrayed as weak, feminine, nerdy, and have small *feet*.. except in kung fu movies.. and yet still, the predominant stereotype is not positive). they don't realize that their way of degrading others is actually also the very same language in mainstream U.S. which put asian men in a subservient or "feminized" position. being asian myself, i find the language problematic, but i get used to it.

    most don't really get into the games and just focus on training. i think the primary focus is on transmitting our beautiful art and culture and during these moments of training gender and everything else disappears. it's just the martial arts.

    i have had both excellent male and female instructors. if someone is detail oriented and can break down and explain things well, i thk they are qualified whatever the gender. in my exp, most schools in TCMA are majority male with a few females in the class.[/QUOTE]


    about definitions of masculinity...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jian View Post
    bawang, it's an interesting way to fight the stereotype, by choosing to highlight some hyper masculine standard to define masculinity... but i don't think it's necessary. for example, just b/c it's cool by some standards to be a big buff football player doesn't mean we asians have to do the same. chinese martial arts is both masculine/feminine, graceful, poetic and beautiful.. the chinese language as well. kick ass with grace. i think asian martial artists can be just as masculine by being their fit selves with normal body sizes.. just think in the history the leaders and fighters in chinese history.. do they really have to be tall and big bulky wrestler types to be masculine?

    i think actually east asian masculinity would appear more androgynous in some circles, and i think that is awesome. we don't have to conform.

    have you ever seen those short asian guys that make up for a lack of height by working out obsessively in the gym?they'll never be able to compete and bench press more and i think it's ridiculous, in my opinion. then they walk around acting all brutish and stuff. not impressive. when i think of masculine i think of kazushi sakuraba.. super modest and dignified.. he aint large (middleweight) compared to his opponents but fights with smarts and can use his intelligence to win over guys heavier than him. i'm sure there are other examples. i prefer that type of masculinity.. not beefcake, dumb, and brutish... get what i'm saying?

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jian View Post
    bawang, it's an interesting way to fight the stereotype, by choosing to highlight some hyper masculine standard to define masculinity...
    Jian, a word to the wise, Bawang is constantly, as they say in Britain, taking the ****. Take his words with a grain of salt (or asprin).
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  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    china has different subcultures. the dominant culture today is remnant of the parasitic merchant class. the military and farming cultures have always been hypermasculine.
    true. the thing about using labels we're trying to deconstruct is that ultimately all labels are simply that.. limited definitions of something with perhaps some partial truth. and yet still, even if we take the hypermasculine stereotype in the east asian way and looking back into history.. east asian men were simply not that big brutish bulky types.. it's still different. my main point though is that masculinity can be redefined in the modern day and doesn't have to be able how much one can bench press or penus size...
    Last edited by Jian; 06-19-2011 at 06:18 AM.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jian View Post
    chinese martial arts is both masculine/feminine, graceful, poetic and beautiful..
    whats so feminine and beautiful about this style?

    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA4OTkyNjg=.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Jian View Post
    do they really have to be tall and big bulky wrestler types to be masculine?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_HKb74FAY
    Last edited by bawang; 06-19-2011 at 06:30 AM.

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