Wing Chun and Meditation

[Andy]

If I'm not mistaken there are two major types of meditation. One is concentration - focusing on one thing to the exclusion of all else. The other is mindfulness - tying to be aware of everything at once. I believe that it was mindfulness that Sun Lu Tang practiced.

I was wondering which type of meditation is traditional for WC? Does it come from the Ermei or Shaolin tradition?

I would also like to hear your thoughts on sitting as opposed to standing meditation. From what I've read of the aikido master Ueshiba, he seemed to do a lot of sitting meditation.

I think that meditation is something that many martial artists don't have the patience for.

Andy

[Graham H]

You're on the wrong forum mate. There must be a yoga forum out there somewhere. No meditation in ving tsun!

[Hendrik]

Since the core of SLT practice is in fact a " moving meditation" , one needs to enter the state with the two doors --- silence mind and loose body.


using Yik Kam's Kuen Kuit on opening the YJKYM for SLT



1, 集意会神平肩襠
Collect the Intention/Attention union with the spirit in the Equal Shoulder stance

5, 气聚丹田督脉降
Collect Qi in Dan Dien, handing the Du Medirian, while the spine is loosely discending.




the following are
Meditation basic which applied to decode the above kuit and aids practice ; for those who likes to know


http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...1&postcount=10

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...7&postcount=30

[Graham H]

more twaddle!!!! so now there is meditation in WC???? SLT is moving meditation???? This forum gets worse I'm sure!!

GH

[Hendrik]

more twaddle!!!! so now there is meditation in WC???? SLT is moving meditation???? This forum gets worse I'm sure!!

GH

Zhan Zhuang is meditation. Doing SLT for 20 mins is meditation. Zhan Zhuang is "still meditation" Cin Kung and Doing SLT for 20 mins is "moving meditation" Dong Kung.

the western term meditation is not a precise term to communicate what is practiced in WCK china 1850.

Undeniable, Ancient WCK always has a Nei Gong part which deal with mind, body, breathing, Qi flow, power generation. Those are the technology embedded within the long SLT set or/ and the three sets.

So, if one want to understand the content of ancient WCK, why the sets are designed the way it is, and the training result of the set. one has no choice but to dig into the Chinese Nei Gong tradition ; and thus the study of "meditation" is un avoidable.


if the assumption is learning "application in fighting" is WCK as some thought in the modern day, then there is a big assumption in this class of thinking. The assumption is the handling of the body/mind/power generation.

But, those who design the WCK doesnt take this assumption because all of these are taken into consideration when the sets are design.

Thus, in the ancient, set training is called Lien Kung or training in kung fu. it is not san sau or application but a mind/body training. and that training result in Kung Fu.


So, how to drop the fear under pressure? how to handle the body structure at an impact? ... those are all within the realm of Nei Gong. and if one doesnt have the part of "meditation" to enter state training, then one doesnt have the switch state training. with able to quiet the mind, one will be able to drop fear. with able to hold on to a structure standing in Zhan Zhuang one will be able to handle/sustain a momentum impact.



it is my view that , one needs to know what is what and how the big picture sum up to know what is going on. Some might interested in it , and some might not. However, what is a fact within WCK in the past, no one can changed because it was as it was.

[Hendrik]

If I'm not mistaken there are two major types of meditation. One is concentration - focusing on one thing to the exclusion of all else. The other is mindfulness - tying to be aware of everything at once. I believe that it was mindfulness that Sun Lu Tang practiced.

I was wondering which type of meditation is traditional for WC? Does it come from the Ermei or Shaolin tradition?

I would also like to hear your thoughts on sitting as opposed to standing meditation. From what I've read of the aikido master Ueshiba, he seemed to do a lot of sitting meditation.

I think that meditation is something that many martial artists don't have the patience for.

Andy

Different type of meditation has different goal.

In general,
standing meditation is for cultivate the body/mind unity, body structure. body structure is emphasis in standing. IE Zhan Zhuang, standing post.

sitting meditation is for cultivate the mind settling and Qi accumulation. mind goes deeper in silence in sitting. IE transcendantal meditation.

moving meditation is for cultivating the body/mind/qi in dynamic. body/mind dynamic coordination and Qi channeling is emphasis in moving. IE: Taiji real silk, SLT, Emei 12 Zhuang...ect

[Vajramusti]

the western term meditation is not a precise term to communicate what is practiced in WCK china 1850.

Undeniable, Ancient WCK always has a Nei Gong part which deal with mind, body, breathing, Qi flow, power generation. Those are the technology embedded within the long SLT set or/ and the three sets. ((hendrik))

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Good statement Hendrik. But given the frequent flow in non- conversations, I don't expect everyone to understand that.

joy chaudhuri

[Tom Kagan]

This forum gets worse I'm sure!!

Only if you continue.

Here's a question for you: What is in your thoughts and what thoughts do you return to when you invariably are distracted when you practice not only SiuLimTao, but also ChumKiu and BilGee?

[trubblman]

I believe there is meditative aspects inherent in the chinese martial arts that come from the Temples. So it seems that without question there is meditation in VT. It is said that Yip Man took up to 1 hour to do VT. If that is correct then he was clearly meditating. Nowadays I dont think meditation is practiced for the most part. However, IMO, meditation is easy when doing VT forms; for starters, focus on the breathe and breathing from the abdomen.

[Vajramusti]

I believe there is meditative aspects inherent in the chinese martial arts that come from the Temples. So it seems that without question there is meditation in VT. It is said that Yip Man took up to 1 hour to do VT. If that is correct then he was clearly meditating. Nowadays I dont think meditation is practiced for the most part. However, IMO, meditation is easy when doing VT forms; for starters, focus on the breathe and breathing from the abdomen.

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There are different kinds of meditation and the concept(s) is/are often mistranslated.

joy chaudhuri

[trubblman]

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There are different kinds of meditation and the concept(s) is/are often mistranslated.

joy chaudhuri

Absolutely. There are different methods of meditation. That's why I said for starters. IMO the easiest method of meditation for Westerners is breathing into the stomach and focusing on the breathe. There are other methods but I think that's the easiest. Science has shown that meditation affects the structure of the brain and the parasympathetic nervous system in a positive way.

[Graham H]

Only if you continue.

Ha! Well at keast we share a mutual opinion of each other!

Here's a question for you: What is in your thoughts and what thoughts do you return to when you invariably are distracted when you practice not only SiuLimTao, but also ChumKiu and BilGee?

I don't get distracted and what I'm thinking about varies from form to form. Whilst in essence all forms are part of a complete package in the beginning the focus is on the elbow and the development of certain ideas and strucuters for the Ving Tsun punch. In Chum Kiu I put those ideas into practice in order to develop the correct behaviour for Ving Tsun movement. My attention is spent correcting errors. The dummy further develops these ideas. In Bil Jee the focus in on minimizing potential danger and injuries should they occur in a fight. I think about perfecting my Ving Tsun. Simple thinking, intelligent fighting.

Take your yogafied WC and blow it out your a$$!!

GH

[Hendrik]

For anyone who is interested in the old ways of doing WCK.



Technically, according to the TCMA Nei Gong practice, there is no different between race and nationality. It is a human technology.




The following are some general basic for the practice.



A, lower abs breathing is evoked naturally,
meaning effortless and let it resonance without any intention. any using of effort to do deep breathing, prolong breathing, shortern breathing, or unnatural forcing is the wrong way.

most people cant do effortless lower abs without proper training and proper breathing structure.

breathing is the bridge between body and mind, thus one needs a proper body structure and a quiet mind to induce a proper deep breathing.

Lower abs breathing is a transformation and not a using to mind to control activity. any using of mind and effort to control is trouble will cause stagnation.

Thus, it is damaging if one control the breath to be a long as the movements....etc. anything doesnt come naturally is problem and must stop the practice immediately.

one time the movement according to the length of the natural breathing, one dont disturb the breathing is the way.


If Ip Man can do it for 1 hours, he might have done it for only 5 mins the first year of his practice. and 10 mins second years based on his body's transformation. That is the fact of all Neigong practice. Doing what the body cant do it naturally is not proper.





B, one might aware of one's breathing in still meditation.

however, focusing in breathing is not the natural way of practice when it comes to practicing the long SLT or the WCK's three sets.


passed down according to Yik Kam of the red boat era;
The full instruction on how to practice the long SLT set or the 3 sets is as the following 4 kuits.



1, 眼對手 Eyes track your hand
2, 手對心 Hand / movement is in sync with intention
3, 手從心發 Hand / movement begin from the intention
4, 一絲不苟 it has to be a clear and solid coordination


#3 is the famous WCK kuit ---- hand issue from heart.


Thus,
The way of WCK set "meditation" practice is ----
using the aware/attention/ tracking of mind body coordination to sync and flow with movement, while quiet down the mind.

This is the training process of how to achieve " come accept, goes return... using silence to lead action." quiet down the mind is silence.




C, Since this is not physical exercise or cardio exercise or sport training,

in any practice of Neigong including the sets of WCK, one must not feel strain or sweat alots/too much . that is the wrong way. one must not feel tired after the practice, one needs to feel relax and energetic and mindfull after the practice.

the feeling has to be relax, warm, and light weight. the increase plenty generation of saliva is a key to know one is doing it properly. if the mouth is dry the practice is wrong.

one also dont do this before one go to bed to prevent over energetic body mind which stay alert.


D, never do the sets in a windy place, Wind is like an arrow which can penetrate one's body, that cause damage and internal injury. only drink cool drink 30 mins after the practice, to prevent temperature shock and stagnation in the internal organs flow.



E, this is an excellent reference on the posture and breathing and fundamental needed for the three sets. it is simple and natural stuffs. the reasoning is complex but the practice is simple and brainless transformation. otherwise, one cant use it spontaneously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAKI6...eature=related




if you dont have a sifu to show you what is the Yik Kam's Kuen Kuit on opening the YJKYM for SLT means.


1, 集意会神平肩襠
Collect the Intention/Attention union with the spirit in the Equal Shoulder stance

5, 气聚丹田督脉降
Collect Qi in Dan Dien, handing the Du Medirian, while the spine is loosely discending.


The above youtube said it petty much. after you watch the clip carefully, re read the kuits and you know.

and there is no rooting but "levitate". if you do it "rooting" that become Hung gar or White Crane or other Southern art. then later, when you want to do fajing. your practice doesnt fit well and cant work well with the WCK three sets.

so the notion is to gradually condition the body properly accord to the characteristics of the style; the snake engine, the WCK way of fajing will come naturally when one practice the set.

So, again, no secret, all technology. it is simple brainless practice for transformation.


BTW. the utube's clip's is the basic of Goulin Qigong . Goulin Qigong is also Emei 12 Zhuang influence so its fundmental applied to WCK practice when it comes to internal kung or nei kung.

[lance]

If I'm not mistaken there are two major types of meditation. One is concentration - focusing on one thing to the exclusion of all else. The other is mindfulness - tying to be aware of everything at once. I believe that it was mindfulness that Sun Lu Tang practiced.

I was wondering which type of meditation is traditional for WC? Does it come from the Ermei or Shaolin tradition?

I would also like to hear your thoughts on sitting as opposed to standing meditation. From what I've read of the aikido master Ueshiba, he seemed to do a lot of sitting meditation.

I think that meditation is something that many martial artists don't have the patience for.

Andy

Andy , read Hendriks topic post on wing Chun and Meditation , it ' s the exact method which I was going to share with you , until Hedrik post it already . Anyway , this method is emphasized by Sifu Augustine Fong and GM William Cheung . The only thing is that you need to practice it every day or whenever you have time very slowely like your doing tai chi . This excercise is what circulates the internal energy through your accupuncture meridian points in your body . Get GM Cheung ' s Chi Power book or his instructional DVDs . And Sifu Austine Fong in one of his DVD materials he conducts a seminar about wing chun in genral and he talks about the SLT form and how it benefits you with chi orovided that you practice the SLT set consistantly .

Ip Man used to practice this form for 1 hour a day , just to get the internal benefits .

[Tom Kagan]

Ha! Well at keast we share a mutual opinion of each other!



I don't get distracted and what I'm thinking about varies from form to form. Whilst in essence all forms are part of a complete package in the beginning the focus is on the elbow and the development of certain ideas and strucuters for the Ving Tsun punch. In Chum Kiu I put those ideas into practice in order to develop the correct behaviour for Ving Tsun movement. My attention is spent correcting errors. The dummy further develops these ideas. In Bil Jee the focus in on minimizing potential danger and injuries should they occur in a fight. I think about perfecting my Ving Tsun. Simple thinking, intelligent fighting.

Take your yogafied WC and blow it out your a$$!!

GH

Guess what? You are describing a form of meditation. Sucks to be you.

(Quick: call your mindfulness and guided imagery something else so you can maintain your illusion)