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Thread: Producing Head Trauma

  1. #1
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    Producing Head Trauma

    When the iron palm threads were lighting up, it caused me to research the subject of blunt and concussive force trauma to the head.

    I am always dubious of "facts" thrown around on forums and in martial arts books and magazines when it comes to the effective of martial arts techniques. So I did my research primarily at verifiable medical websites. Along with the facts I will present are my sources for the information. I believe some may find this interesting and worth passing on to their students.

    Here are some facts I came across:

    HOW CAN THE BRAIN BE INJURED?
    In the United States traumatic brain injury (TBI) is a leading cause of death for persons under age 45. TBI occurs every 15 seconds…The leading causes of TBI are motor vehicle accidents, falls, and sports injuries.

    http://www.braininjury.com/injured.html

    The brain is vulnerable to traumatic damage in two ways. The cerebral cortex can become bruised - contused - when the head strikes a hard object (or a hard objects strikes the head). Or, the deep white matter can suffer diffuse axonal injury when the head is whiplashed without hitting a hard object (or being hit by one). In serious whiplash injuries, the axons are stretched so much that they are damaged.

    Cerebral contusions tend to occur at the tips of the frontal and temporal lobes where they bang up against the interior of the skull. Diffuse axonal injury occurs more toward the center of the brain where axons are subjected to maximal stretching.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/19029-blunt-head-trauma-effects/

    Symptoms
    Symptoms of blunt head trauma can either occur immediately after injury or develop slowly within a few hours or days. Severe symptoms that can arise from head injury include convulsion, changes in the pupils, inability to move one or more limbs, irritability, personality changes, unusual behavior, loss of consciousness, confusion, drowsiness, low breathing rate, drop in blood pressure, lack of coordination, severe headache, slurred speech, blurred vision, stiff neck and vomiting.

    Effects
    Injury to the head can result in severe damage to the brain. According to the National Institutes of Health, serious head trauma can result in speech and language problems, coma, chronic headaches, paralysis, seizure, changes in sensation, and changes in hearing, vision, taste or smell. In addition, bleeding can occur within the brain, which can exacerbate brain damage.

    http://www.emedicinehealth.com/head_injury/article_em.htm

    The Power of a Hand Strike

    The force of a professional boxer's fist is equivalent to being hit with a 13 pound bowling ball traveling 20 miles per hour, about 52 g's….

    American Association of Neurological Surgeons

    http://www.aans.org/Patient%20Information/Conditions%20and%20Treatments/Sports-Related%20Head%20Injury.aspx

    Deaths in the Ring

    Journal of Combative Sport

    From 1890 to 2007 1,335 deaths occurred world-wide in a boxing type format:
    14 Toughman style fighters
    126 training deaths
    293 amateur boxers
    923 professional boxers

    From 1960 to 2007 there were 421 boxing-related deaths. 80% of the deaths were attributed to head, brain or neck injuries.

    http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_b_0700.htm
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 06-25-2011 at 06:22 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/357219314344817/

    45 years of training and still not there. But every once in a while I get it right!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

    Yes, I fight in silk pajamas. And I have probably broken more opponent's ribs in my silk pajamas than many others rolling around in their knickers and mittens!

  2. #2
    You'd think that a self-proclaimed "medical professional" would at least attempt to research the fact that there is no such thing as "concussive force trauma". There is blunt force trauma and there is penetrating trauma.

  3. #3
    to research the fact that there is no such thing as "concussive force trauma".
    What about "concussive force (Trauma)"

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Snipsky View Post
    Anything labeled concussive force trauma would be no different than blunt force trauma, which is the term usually used in the medical field.

    In the other thread, the OP was trying to say that there was a difference in terms of how a strike would be delivered when, in actuality, they would be the same thing.

  5. #5
    i gotcha. cool.

    I wonder why Concussive got attached to trauma? Blunt force makes more sense. both are a result of something being hit by something else right?
    Last edited by Snipsky; 06-25-2011 at 08:10 PM.

  6. #6
    Lacerations mean the skin has been broken. The skin is not broken with bruises( contusions). Both can be caused by blunt force trauma.

  7. #7
    Lacerations mean the skin has been broken. The skin is not broken with bruises( contusions). Both can be caused by blunt force trauma.
    i see. that answered it. peace.

  8. #8
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    richard, dont bother. i have compiled alot of evidence over the past few days from independant research that shows blunt force trauma and the body. especially a couple good ones that 100% equate a coconut and the human skull. the human skull is not as hard as everyone seems to think it is. a guy who reads this forum but does not post because of all the jacka$$e$,actualy contacted me and give me some info on coconuts and the skull. one of them even came from that tv show sports science. the rest were medical papers. he is a registered nurse and had a good deal of emergency room work and sees trauma all the time.he said most skullls arent really that thick,only in the very upper front,like where u use to headbutt someone. he backed up what we have known all along. i will send these to you.
    i will leave you with 1 analogy he said the so called "forum expert" doesnt seem to think of. density. drop 3lb of water on your head then drop 3lb of steel shot on your head from exactly the same distance and same speed. which one feels good??
    same thing with a conditioned hand.
    also i just realized the other day,i was taking for granted that all other i.p. practitioners had the same power development exercises we have,like i showed you,so when i discuss iron palm i think they have had the same training as me. but this is not the case. some just hit their hand a few times on a hard medium and think it is iron palm.
    true iron palm consists of many different training facets and skills rolled into 1.
    i will discuss these with you off forum.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by teetsao View Post
    richard, dont bother. i have compiled alot of evidence over the past few days from independant research that shows blunt force trauma and the body. especially a couple good ones that 100% equate a coconut and the human skull. the human skull is not as hard as everyone seems to think it is. a guy who reads this forum but does not post because of all the jacka$$e$,actualy contacted me and give me some info on coconuts and the skull. one of them even came from that tv show sports science. the rest were medical papers. he is a registered nurse and had a good deal of emergency room work and sees trauma all the time.he said most skullls arent really that thick,only in the very upper front,like where u use to headbutt someone. he backed up what we have known all along. i will send these to you.
    i will leave you with 1 analogy he said the so called "forum expert" doesnt seem to think of. density. drop 3lb of water on your head then drop 3lb of steel shot on your head from exactly the same distance and same speed. which one feels good??
    same thing with a conditioned hand.
    also i just realized the other day,i was taking for granted that all other i.p. practitioners had the same power development exercises we have,like i showed you,so when i discuss iron palm i think they have had the same training as me. but this is not the case. some just hit their hand a few times on a hard medium and think it is iron palm.
    true iron palm consists of many different training facets and skills rolled into 1.
    i will discuss these with you off forum.
    Really, then please post the links to the scientific evidence showing the relationship to the skull and a coconut.

    That being said, let's assume, for argument's sake, they are the same. It's still ludicrous to think striking downward on a stationary coconut is even close to how you would strike to the skull of a moving, resisting person who is trying to hurt you.

  10. #10
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    i'll let you find them on your own ,mr. research.
    who said anything about breaking it ,down or even layed on anything.
    as i said earlier my training is different than most.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by teetsao View Post
    i'll let you find them on your own ,mr. research.
    who said anything about breaking it ,down or even layed on anything.
    as i said earlier my training is different than most.
    That's what I figured.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snipsky View Post
    Snipsky,

    I have Faxiapreta on ignore, so I don't know how he answered your question, but here is my response.

    Concussive force as it relates to head trauma refers to an injury to the brain through a strike to the head that does not result in a skull fracture. Concussive force can occur due to blunt force trauma, whiplash, or shaking.

    Here is a simple analogy:

    Take an uncooked egg and smash it with a hammer. That is blunt force trauma that cracks the shell and mashes the yoke. Now take an egg and shake it violently. The shell may be undamaged while the inner yoke is damaged. That is how I think of concussive force.

    Teetsao,
    I have no data that I can use to compare the different between a coconut and a human skull. However, I worked in a funeral home for several years and peered into human bodies of all types and sizes. You are correct that the skull is not as thick as some might imagine. Yet it is quite strong and resilient.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/357219314344817/

    45 years of training and still not there. But every once in a while I get it right!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

    Yes, I fight in silk pajamas. And I have probably broken more opponent's ribs in my silk pajamas than many others rolling around in their knickers and mittens!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    Snipsky,

    I have Faxiapreta on ignore, so I don't know how he answered your question, but here is my response.

    Concussive force as it relates to head trauma refers to an injury to the brain through a strike to the head that does not result in a skull fracture. Concussive force can occur due to blunt force trauma, whiplash, or shaking.

    Here is a simple analogy:

    Take an uncooked egg and smash it with a hammer. That is blunt force trauma that cracks the shell and mashes the yoke. Now take an egg and shake it violently. The shell may be undamaged while the inner yoke is damaged. That is how I think of concussive force.
    .
    Yet, this supposed medical professional was making the claim that one could somehow learn to strike with a "concussive force" vs. striking with a "trauma force."

  14. #14
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    Percussive Strikes

    While blunt force and concussive force can be used to injury the body, percussive force is used in the diagnosis of illness and healing of the body.

    Definition of Percussive Force

    Medicine/Medical . the striking or tapping of the surface of a part of the body for diagnostic or therapeutic purposes.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/percussion

    Percussive Strikes and Diagnosis

    Percussion is a method of assessing the condition of a patient’s organs or joints. In its simple form, it involves striking the body with the fingertips. The vibrations or sounds obtained as feedback can reveal the position, size, consistency and overall health condition of an internal organ.

    http://hubpages.com/hub/What-is-a-Medical-Percussor-Used-For

    Chest Physiotherapy

    Percussive strikes to the chest above the lungs are used to clear mucus out of the lungs.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/44263933/Chest-Physiotherapy-Patrick

    In percussion, the therapist rhythmically strikes the chest wall with cupped hands to break the thick lung secretions.

    http://www.pthealth.ca/therapy_services.php?services=42

    Thus it can be seen that even light strikes with cupped hands can have an internal effect on the body.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/357219314344817/

    45 years of training and still not there. But every once in a while I get it right!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

    Yes, I fight in silk pajamas. And I have probably broken more opponent's ribs in my silk pajamas than many others rolling around in their knickers and mittens!

  15. #15
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    easy richard,you just let a pearl slip out.

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