Cost of wars at least 3.7 Trillion and counting

[Drake]

Obama has a point in that he has been in office for 3 years or so but bringing the troops home is excellent as opposed to sending them to fight in a way that many people OKayed (more or less) in the first place.

The psychological battle is worse only because of the deciet of the military industrial complex. Inflation, economy, NAFTA plus the scars of war and when these vets try to find jobs, there is nowhere to go and no one will hire them!
They become vulnerable because they have been lied to and when they try to seek help they are branded as 'cowards'.. Things are changing but they remain the same but it is far worse.

Why would a mortgage institution purpose foreclose on the home of a militay person knowing s/he is deployed to defend the freedom we so eagerly try to protect? Why fire a reserve (IRR) sent for 1 year and claim he never showed up to work knowing his reserve status. This is what many are dealing with!

I know guys who have been deployed between 3-5x but the military is saying they have enough personnel! A big shell game if you ask me. Just venting my patriotism!

These vets have free college and receive a ton of classes on how to market themselves to civilian employers. I'm not going to get too deep into this, but when you have a guy with an unmarketable MOS, who chose to play X-Box or drink during reset (and MANY do), and has the manners of a wild boar, you have a recipe for failure. This is a result of lack of personal motivation.

You can't hire someone as a forklift driver, machine operator, doctor, lawyer, or any other job that pays anything close to a livable salary if they don't know how to do it, even IF they were in the service.

We DO have enough personnel NOW. And we'll be cutting the force here shortly, as we have, historically, after every conflict. I have nobody coming to fill my position here when I leave. The Afghans are on their own in that respect.

I earned my BS, MS, and I'm finishing my PhD - Army paid for everything. If someone CHOOSES not to use that benefit, then they are setting themselves up for failure.

[David Jamieson]

These vets have free college and receive a ton of classes on how to market themselves to civilian employers. I'm not going to get too deep into this, but when you have a guy with an unmarketable MOS, who chose to play X-Box or drink during reset (and MANY do), and has the manners of a wild boar, you have a recipe for failure. This is a result of lack of personal motivation.

You can't hire someone as a forklift driver, machine operator, doctor, lawyer, or any other job that pays anything close to a livable salary if they don't know how to do it, even IF they were in the service.

We DO have enough personnel NOW. And we'll be cutting the force here shortly, as we have, historically, after every conflict. I have nobody coming to fill my position here when I leave. The Afghans are on their own in that respect.

I earned my BS, MS, and I'm finishing my PhD - Army paid for everything. If someone CHOOSES not to use that benefit, then they are setting themselves up for failure.

Place will fall back into being a sh!thole.
Afghan army is a joke. They're high all the time. lol

Seriously, are any of them ANA fellers ANY good at all with soldiering? Every time we get a glimpse they appear to be an incompetent pack of chronic hashheads wasting ordinance and bullets like they're candy.

substantiate? refute?

[Drake]

Place will fall back into being a sh!thole.
Afghan army is a joke. They're high all the time. lol

Seriously, are any of them ANA fellers ANY good at all with soldiering? Every time we get a glimpse they appear to be an incompetent pack of chronic hashheads wasting ordinance and bullets like they're candy.

substantiate? refute?

Can't speak for the ANA, but the ANP here under BG Razziq are friggin' terrifyingly efficient now. There's problems, but nothing that we aren't already fixing. You'll never hear about the Afghan led airstrikes, rounding up of TB, or clearing ops going on almost daily here.

We are neck deep in the fighting season... and so far the TB are having a hell of a time really getting any traction.

[Syn7]

Meh, if they keep it up, I shall simply rescind my consent to be governed.

Dunno why people don't bump hip to these available ways for people to reclaim their country.

step off the grid and step away from the crazy.
Takes a lot of abilities that a lot of people simply don't have anymore.

Your average 20 something in an urban environment is pretty much useless out in the real world.

Your average 40 something has probably been on a few camping trips and likely knows a few basic survival tactics.

Odd how the younger generations are being robbed of their ability to survive simply by the fact that they are not required to do so in an urban environment which is where more than 85% of the people are.

and stay in the realm? just rescind(sp?)?
i knew you could give up citizenship but i had no idea you could refuse to be governed yet remain in the same community. so what? you dont pay taxes but you cant use hospitals cops firemen and roads??? whats that all about???

or do you mean just take off into the great wild? lots of people do that and are justy never heard from again. some live long, some dont.....

i grew up with one foot in the city and the other in the bush... i lived in an urban area but took off into the mountains for days, sometimes even weeeks when we were late teens... i know i can survive with basic equipment cause ive done it. im pretty sure i could get by with a few tools, as long as im not hurt or somehow held back in some other way, weather related or something.... i mean, if you drop me off in the arctic with a hoody and tennis shoes im a dead man almost for sure.

blades
fire
good clothing and packs
minor fishing tackle, like handline gear

thats pretty much it, with that i can create whatever else i need as long as the environment isnt crazy extreme. around BC im fine for sure. i miss our old treks into the rockies. we covered some serious ground. did some pretty dumb stuff too, i must admit. like climbs without fall protection, for example.

we had some fresh dirt bike treks too

gotta really plan those tho, cause of the fuel situation. u can only carry so much and go so far without re-loading somehow. and its hard to find somebody who will drive in a truck and meet you with gear along the way cause they all wanna be on their bikes. somebody has to do it tho.

[BJJ-Blue]

Can't speak for the ANA, but the ANP here under BG Razziq are friggin' terrifyingly efficient now. There's problems, but nothing that we aren't already fixing. You'll never hear about the Afghan led airstrikes, rounding up of TB, or clearing ops going on almost daily here.

We are neck deep in the fighting season... and so far the TB are having a hell of a time really getting any traction.

Your opinion means nothing. Jamieson presented his 'facts' on the issue and thus the case is closed. He is never wrong, so by default you are wrong. Your experience, education, and training mean squat in the face of Jamieson's 'facts'.

[BJJ-Blue]

What could be more American than that?? Its kind of like our foreign policy...we'll bomb you into democracy. Some where along the line we forgot democracy comes from within. Hence the 'Arab' spring all around the countries we actually occupied.

Reagan's foreign policy was nothing like that. He didn't bomb the USSR or any of Eastern Europe into democracy. He did it without firing a shot. He is known as "The Great Liberator" in Eastern Europe for good reason.

[Drake]

Your opinion means nothing. Jamieson presented his 'facts' on the issue and thus the case is closed. He is never wrong, so by default you are wrong. Your experience, education, and training mean squat in the face of Jamieson's 'facts'.

I won't get into the details, but sometimes, when I shake a certain someone's hand out here (not Karzai), I can't help but wonder if this sense of unease is the same one Rumsfeld felt when he shook Saddam's hand way back then.

It's unsettling, really...

[Reality_Check]

Reagan's foreign policy was nothing like that. He didn't bomb the USSR or any of Eastern Europe into democracy. He did it without firing a shot. He is known as "The Great Liberator" in Eastern Europe for good reason.

As I'm sure you are aware, Hebrew Hammer was referring to the foreign policy of the current administration (engaged in hostilities in 6 countries: Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya and Somalia) and the previous administration who claimed we could impose democracy by force of arms. Neither administration has proven to be all that successful. Bringing up President Reagan was a non-sequitur.

[BJJ-Blue]

As I'm sure you are aware, Hebrew Hammer was referring to the foreign policy of the current administration... Bringing up President Reagan was a non-sequitur.

I was well aware of that. I was just showing an example where force was not used. I was not making a comparison.

However there is one big similarity; liberals complained back then that Reagan was spending too much to accomplish his goals and they are now complaining Bush (and even the community organizer) are spending too much to accomplish theirs. Of course Reagan's money was money well spent, he accomplished his goals. Time will tell how this conflict will turn out.

[David Jamieson]

And yet, I still can't buy liquor on Sundays.

Really? Why not? you have laws preventing you from buying something legal on Sundays because of religious moral ideals?

really?

Vote for the guy that scrubs that crap I guess.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I was well aware of that. I was just showing an example where force was not used. I was not making a comparison.

However there is one big similarity; liberals complained back then that Reagan was spending too much to accomplish his goals and they are now complaining Bush (and even the community organizer) are spending too much to accomplish theirs. Of course Reagan's money was money well spent, he accomplished his goals. Time will tell how this conflict will turn out.

Actually I think you were making a comparison...that being said, giving Reagan credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union is like giving Obama credit for the Arab Spring. Reality is that those countries were ripe for change, the Russians chose say Communism is no longer working for us, it only occurred on his watch. Reagan's economic policy of cutting taxes and increasing spending is and was NEVER a good idea. If you don't think so, go out and take a new car or home loan and then quit your job for a minimum wage one and see how that works out for you. His administration tripled our national debt and has help to lead us down this series of excessive deficit spending that we are now in. Either increase taxes with spending, you don't do war on credit, or cut taxes and cut spending.

Don't get me wrong, I actually liked Reagan, his military arms race and defense spending was the icing on the cake that probably hastened their collapse...only because Communism, in that form was a failed economic ideology...just look at modern day China who have embraced more western style economy, with their own slant...whose leadership will also succumb to a multiparty type government eventually.

[BJJ-Blue]

Actually I think you were making a comparison...that being said, giving Reagan credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union is like giving Obama credit for the Arab Spring. Reality is that those countries were ripe for change, the Russians chose say Communism is no longer working for us, it only occurred on his watch.

Reagan was either Nostradamus or it was his policies working that made the USSR implode. He said we would ratchet up our defense spending and they would do the same to keep up. He said their inferior system, communism, would go broke doing that. And he was 100% correct.

Reagan's economic policy of cutting taxes and increasing spending is and was NEVER a good idea. If you don't think so, go out and take a new car or home loan and then quit your job for a minimum wage one and see how that works out for you.

Bad analogy.

Reagan's tax cuts increased revenue. So that does not equate to quitting my job. The correct comparison would actually be me getting a large raise. But you are half correct, the spending was the problem. But Reagan's military spending increases accomplished their goals, while decades and decades of social spending has only made that problem worse.

The correct formula is to cut taxes and cut spending. That tackles the problem on both ends, and in the correct ways.

His administration tripled our national debt and has help to lead us down this series of excessive deficit spending that we are now in. Either increase taxes with spending, you don't do war on credit, or cut taxes and cut spending.

Again, his Administration accomplished it's goals in regards to it's spending. That's the key here. Of course the community organizer's massive spending has not accomplished it's goals. It did not keep unemployment under 8% as were told it would. And the community organizer has spent more in 2 years than Reagan did in 8.

...only because Communism, in that form was a failed economic ideology...just look at modern day China who have embraced more western style economy, ...

Agreed 100%.

Lets try and discuss this more in depth than what we disagree on. Knowing this is true, why in the world are we trying to move more 'left' while China is heading 'right' at a rapid pace? So of course the jobs are leaving here, and going to China. I just can't fathom how so many people lack common sense in this regard. There can be no argument here if all involved simply have a room temperature IQ. China's economy is going to surpass ours soon enough, and the reason why should be crystal clear. You and I get it, why do so many others not get it?


And I can source the Reagan years increased tax revenues if you want (my links are at home, I'm at work). It's actually quite well known that that indeed did happen. You're quite rational, so I hope you either already know this, or you will acknoledge that as fact once I do source it if asked.

[Drake]

“If you keep a bird in a cage for twenty years and then open the door and say its free, it may be free, but it doesn’t have the courage of flight.”
~Akrem, assassinated Afghan Chief of Police, Kandahar


Something to think about...

[David Jamieson]

“If you keep a bird in a cage for twenty years and then open the door and say its free, it may be free, but it doesn’t have the courage of flight.”
~Akrem, assassinated Afghan Chief of Police, Kandahar


Something to think about...

African Americans have no courage?

[Drake]

African Americans have no courage?

How long did it take them? Most went right back to being slaves after the Union went through.

Nearly 100 years after being free did they stay have the courage to stand up for themselves.

Are you always this smug and "know it all"? The man died because he stood up to the wrong people, and you swing back with some revisionist approach to history? Blacks were servants to whites for over a CENTURY after they were legally free. Never stood up for their right to vote, their right to ride where they please on the bus, to sit where they want in restaurants.

Akrem hit the nail on the head. You did not.