Cost of wars at least 3.7 Trillion and counting

[KC Elbows]

How long did it take them? Most went right back to being slaves after the Union went through.

Nearly 100 years after being free did they stay have the courage to stand up for themselves.

Are you always this smug and "know it all"? The man died because he stood up to the wrong people, and you swing back with some revisionist approach to history? Blacks were servants to whites for over a CENTURY after they were legally free. Never stood up for their right to vote, their right to ride where they please on the bus, to sit where they want in restaurants.

Akrem hit the nail on the head. You did not.

Not sure I'd agree with your assessment 100%. Indian nations who fought against what was happening to them got wiped out. When the army and the courts and the police and industry are largely for your situation, rising up by force or attempts at changes that threaten the status quo are often pipe dreams. Yes, a population may be cowed, but their avoidance of rising up may be based on rational awareness of what is necessary for survival and not reticence.

Black leaders in the era you are discussing were aware of how much they could push without risking getting killed for no gains whatsoever. They debated the need for more, but this debate was most relevant at the point where it was unclear what would happen. After the end of slavery, probably the riskiest thing to be was a black man rising in influence and wealth. There are tons of stories about how such people were cheated out of what was theirs, and even their lives, by whites, backed by white police. white courts, white juries, etc. Rising up requires leaders, and black leaders could not survive while proposing any major changes.

[bawang]

african americans are stil not free. america controls the black man by his genitalia, roughly quoting louis farrakhan.

[sanjuro_ronin]

How long did it take them? Most went right back to being slaves after the Union went through.

Nearly 100 years after being free did they stay have the courage to stand up for themselves.

Are you always this smug and "know it all"? The man died because he stood up to the wrong people, and you swing back with some revisionist approach to history? Blacks were servants to whites for over a CENTURY after they were legally free. Never stood up for their right to vote, their right to ride where they please on the bus, to sit where they want in restaurants.

Akrem hit the nail on the head. You did not.

I don't think it is an issue of courage per say.
When one is caged and beaten it is the will that suffers, not courage.
Free the body means nothing when the mind and spirit are still captive and broken.

[Drake]

I don't think it is an issue of courage per say.
When one is caged and beaten it is the will that suffers, not courage.
Free the body means nothing when the mind and spirit are still captive and broken.

Which is what Akrem was saying...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Which is what Akrem was saying...

Which I agree with.
It's far to east for free people to talk of freedom and courage to fight for it, when we have never HAD to or ever been under the TRUE mantel of oppression and dictatorship.
Slavery exists because people's wills and minds are broken, not because they lack courage.
Untill you free a person's mind and they have will and hope and faith in something better, they will never be free.

[BJJ-Blue]

Blacks went from being slaves to plantation owners to being slaves to the Democrat Party. Akrem was right in that way, they were not really ready for freedom in a sense. They went from having one 'master' to a having different 'master'. When 95%+ of any group all thinks the same, there simply is not alot of free thinking going on, just alot of following.

[SoCo KungFu]

When 95%+ of any group all thinks the same, there simply is not alot of free thinking going on, just alot of following.

Oh the ironing

[David Jamieson]

Blacks went from being slaves to plantation owners to being slaves to the Democrat Party. Akrem was right in that way, they were not really ready for freedom in a sense. They went from having one 'master' to a having different 'master'.

wow, you're like a total idiot today! that's awesome.

When 95%+ of any group all thinks the same, there simply is not alot of free thinking going on, just alot of following.

yeah, you just described the elitist racist scumbag party...I mean the GOP.

[KC Elbows]

Ack.

Ack.

Black Americans in Jim Crow era weren't cowed OR lacking will or faith or hope as a group.

They were lynched for being "uppity". They were largely excluded from the courts. They were targets, especially the ones most able to cause trouble. They were excluded from business transactions outside their own race.

Slowly, they made ground with the help of some allies. Over time, they pushed for change while often touting the American Dream, instead of mere rebellion by force.

How cowed, weak, and lacking will.

[David Jamieson]

^ I agree with this.

People were killed. People fought back. More people were killed.

When the ones who are supposed to have "freed" you do not act in that manner, then you switch to survival mode and you simply don't really grow any trust for your oppressors overall although you may come to trust individuals according to how they act and how they treat you.

I would also add that the civil rights movement, it's people and it's leaders had more courage than any American who opposed them in their struggle for egalitarianism.

It still festers in many places. It is still embedded into everyones consciousness.

[KC Elbows]

I understand it's far more fun to debate the failures of emancipation without citing a single history of Reconstruction or discussing the debates between black leaders of the time on what courses were wisest and most fruitful. After all, white people did all the work. That's the lesson of civil rights.

Ack.

Hell, I'll just join in.

Carpetbaggers and scalawags! All those black legislatures that formed after emancipation(all seven hundred million of them, it's true!) didn't understand what to do with freedom.

It's so lucky there were white people to help convey what liberty minded individuals are all about! Hail Woodrow Wilson!

[KC Elbows]

Thomas Jefferson sold disagreeable slaves to plantations in the Deep South, as punishment, where they probably died or were broken, or, if lucky, fled to live with native peoples.

Who typified love of freedom and hatred of tyranny more, Jefferson, or those slaves?

Those slaves didn't survive to help make their people free, though.

[KC Elbows]

Blacks never petitioned for freedom before we freed them.

They never sought the vote before we gave it to them.

They never opposed Jim Crow laws before we did.

They never opposed segregation before we did.

All true, I swear.

[KC Elbows]

There are never circumstances that favor oppression so that sane people would be forced to, for a time, accept oppression.

We're talking fact, here. True unfalse factitude.

Little known fact. The jews could've left Egypt anytime. The Pharaoh was quoted as saying "What's a jew? Why are all these people milling about? Yahwhat?"

[KC Elbows]

I've always thought it was nice that the white man let black people have Haiti, no questions asked.