Beware Students: Potential Pit Falls

[Ray Pina]

I encountered a phenomenon training in Kung Fu that I haven't experienced elsewhere: a great preoccupation on what the other is doing.

Granted, it is important to know the tendencies of other fighting methods out there, for when you encounter them. But typically I would hear a sifu explain why such-and-such style was inferior because they used such-and-such technique.... then the teacher would call out a senior student who has been well trained in cooperation and demonstrate the point.

One example of this is a sifu exclaiming that Judo sweeps were a 50/50 endeavor, that the sweeper can just as easily be the sweepie..... WRONG!

If two people share the same grip and stand in front of each other, then yes, they have equal chance of throwing.... that is not a Judo sweep. The first movement in a Judo sweep is a tug to the side, to sink the person's weight onto the foot being swept.

This is just an example. And this again is why competition is important.

Instead of talking about one's stylistic advantage, go demonstrate it against an equally skilled player (sifu) of the style you think incorporates poor technique. Usually you'll find out that they don't.

Question everything your teacher tells you! Ask lots of questions! Put them on the spot!.... if they're qualified, they're more than happy to show you.

[JamesC]

I encountered a phenomenon training in Kung Fu that I haven't experienced elsewhere: a great preoccupation on what the other is doing.

Granted, it is important to know the tendencies of other fighting methods out there, for when you encounter them. But typically I would hear a sifu explain why such-and-such style was inferior because they used such-and-such technique.... then the teacher would call out a senior student who has been well trained in cooperation and demonstrate the point.

One example of this is a sifu exclaiming that Judo sweeps were a 50/50 endeavor, that the sweeper can just as easily be the sweepie..... WRONG!

If two people share the same grip and stand in front of each other, then yes, they have equal chance of throwing.... that is not a Judo sweep. The first movement in a Judo sweep is a tug to the side, to sink the person's weight onto the foot being swept.

This is just an example. And this again is why competition is important.

Instead of talking about one's stylistic advantage, go demonstrate it against an equally skilled player (sifu) of the style you think incorporates poor technique. Usually you'll find out that they don't.

Question everything your teacher tells you! Ask lots of questions! Put them on the spot!.... if they're qualified, they're more than happy to show you.

I used to HATE getting swept(sweeped?) when I was simply stepping. As a noob, I still hadn't gotten the whole sliding foot thing down. Didn't matter, though. The black belts could sweep me while stepping regardless.

Not to mention that if they did pull you and you reacted by opposing their pull they would just sweep your oppositional pull... Gah. Frustration.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

This does not just happen in Kung Fu, but other arts as well. I have seen both Karate and Taekwondo schools pull this same hocus pocus act and say how such and such style is not as good and this can counter this and blah, blah, blah. Guess what, there are only so many ways to punch, kick, elbow, and knee. And even though grappling arts can differ they share just as many similarities, which is why under an agreed upon ruleset you get many different competitors in grappling tournies.

Sure there are bad Kung Fu schools, we all know that, we have all argued about it a zillion times, why not focus on the good stuff and let the crap be crap!

[Ray Pina]

why not focus on the good stuff and let the crap be crap!

The good stuff takes care of itself.

[GeneChing]

I encountered a phenomenon training in Kung Fu that I haven't experienced elsewhere: a great preoccupation on what the other is doing.

Ray, are you preoccupied with the preoccupation of others?

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is always a good idea to KNOW your enemy, but only to the extent that you are familar with what he may do, going beyond that is a whole LOTS of ASSuming.
best to focus on what YOU do best, get a game plane for what you need work on and get into and stay in "fighting shape".

[YouKnowWho]

It is always a good idea to KNOW your enemy, but only to the extent that you are familar with what he may do, going beyond that is a whole LOTS of ASSuming.
best to focus on what YOU do best, get a game plane for what you need work on and get into and stay in "fighting shape".

Agree 100% there. Stay on your game plan. Try to lead your opponent into your most familiar area and to his least familiar area. Box against a wrestler, and wrestle against a boxer.

It's important to be able to read whether your opponent is a right hand person or a left hand person. Moving away from your opponent's major hand. Letting his minor hand to jam his major hand will always be to your advantage.

[TenTigers]

I used to get that when I was a beginner, and training in Tang Soo Do, and on alternate days, Wing Chun.
My TSD teacher would say, Wing Chun doesn't work, and then have me try to fight him using what little I knew, and I'd get trashed.
Then my Wing Chun Sifu would say, Karate is no good, and have me fight him using the little TSD I knew, and..I'd get trashed!
I think the bottom line is, I wasn't good!

[ginosifu]

My teacher would never use other styles as examples for techniques. He would always say be prepared if your first technique does not work, then opt for the second etc etc.

It is my belief that other styles can be just as good as kung fu styles if they practice and work their techniques properly. I have had some students who have bad mouthed other styles and I yelled at them, saying that the best style is the guy who trains the hardest at what he's got.

Focus on your own stuff, train with resistance, practice regularly and diligently and don't worry about what others are doing.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

Another issue is to never, ever, fall into the "if he does this, do this" mentality.
That will get you beat like a Ron Jeremy's schlong.

[SPJ]

Agree 100% there. Stay on your game plan. Try to lead your opponent into your most familiar area and to his least familiar area. Box against a wrestler, and wrestle against a boxer.

It's important to be able to read whether your opponent is a right hand person or a left hand person. Moving away from your opponent's major hand. Letting his minor hand to jam his major hand will always be to your advantage.

2 great points

1. finding out or testing your opponent first, you yield 3 moves, move back, move to the left and move to the right.

you would know something about his skills, while you do not reveal your skills just yet.

2. playing your own game, if you are good at left hook punch, then use setups that let you do your best move/left hook punch

you fight your way, I fight mine sort of

ni da ni de

wo da wo de

--

[YouKnowWho]

Another issue is to never, ever, fall into the "if he does this, do this" mentality.
That will get you beat like a Ron Jeremy's schlong.

All counters in TCMA are pretty much just common sense with logic behind it. When your opponent

- punches your head, you kick his belly (your leg is longer than his arm).
- Kicks you, you run him down (your opponent has weak balance when he kicks).
- bear hugs you, you give him over hook and crack his elbow (it's hard for him to pull that arm out).
- headlocks you, you give him underhook (to lift him up).
- ...

"If you do A then I do B" is to "find the right key to open the right lock". If you can find the right key, it takes no effort to open a lock. There is nothing wrong about that.

Of course your opponent's 1st move may be just a set up for his 2nd move and he wants you to react as he predicts. When the cheating game starts, everything will be just "relative" and not "absolute" any more.

[David Jamieson]

I can actively quote hundreds of posts in here from guys who claim they are mma-ers who constantly seem to be distracted by Kung Fu and what they think it can or cannot do.

Cripes sake, they don't even realize waht "Kung Fu" means and that if they are good at mma, then that is their kung Fu. lol idiots. what can you do?

chastise and admonish them for their ignorance I guess, but that's a full time job sometimes here.

[faxiapreta]

I can actively quote hundreds of posts in here from guys who claim they are mma-ers who constantly seem to be distracted by Kung Fu and what they think it can or cannot do.

Cripes sake, they don't even realize waht "Kung Fu" means and that if they are good at mma, then that is their kung Fu. lol idiots. what can you do?

chastise and admonish them for their ignorance I guess, but that's a full time job sometimes here.

"They" realize what kung fu is. And just because someone practices kung fu doesn't mean he does kung fu.

[faxiapreta]

(your leg is longer than his arm).

Which would be pretty much the reason you can't kick someone's belly when he is striking your head.

- Kicks you, you run him down (your opponent has weak balance when he kicks).

LOL @ running into a kick being thrown.

- bear hugs you, you give him over hook and crack his elbow (it's hard for him to pull that arm out).

Good luck with that.

- headlocks you, you give him underhook (to lift him up).

Underhook from a headlock. I don't think so.