Secret of Kung Fu

[Dragonzbane76]

to the original post.

I agree stance work is one of the better tools aquired from KF. Similar story myself of going away from KF for some time and doing MMA and contact fighting, then coming back and finding things again in KF. I don't know if its the "secret" of KF and i'll agree with david that time and effort play the bigger role.

I'm not going to get into the forms debate. I'm not a big fan of them, but they have there place.

[Lucas]

To me, "a jab followed by a cross" is a form (I prefer to call it drill). It's a way to train solo when you don't have partner.

yes, if we use the term 'drill' people are generally ok with it.

[David Jamieson]

combo is suitable as well or i like "sets" as well.

It is a set of data.

[Lucas]

c c c c c combo breaker!!

[faxiapreta]

yes, if we use the term 'drill' people are generally ok with it.

OK that's fine. Call it combo, drill... what you want. Still doesn't make trying to extrapolate a choke from it any less stupid.

[Snipsky]

If a fighter is solo practicing and does: a straight punch, hook, uppercut, duck, changed angles and repeats covering at least the four directions he is doing a form. you say tomato i say tomahto

[faxiapreta]

If a fighter is solo practicing and does: a straight punch, hook, uppercut, duck, changed angles and repeats covering at least the four directions he is doing a form. you say tomato i say tomahto

Yep, if he was doing the same exact thing over an over again, he'd be wasting his time as much as if he were doing a traditional form.

Shadow boxing should be the movements done in a fight. If a boxer is doing the same movement over and over again, he's going to get knocked on his @ss in short order.

Still not quite as stupid as trying to extrapolate chokes from his movements.

[pateticorecords]

Which, of course, ARE forms!

Almost all of them practiced forms. What are drills? They are forms! ALL ancient armies drilled. How does anyone think Alexander taught his soldiers to deal with the Persian army's scythe chariots, or Indian elephants?

By repeatedly drilling his army in how to react, avoid, defend and attack WITHOUT scythed chariots or elephants to practice against. That is, they practiced forms!

Thanks I was in the military for 8 years... that's how we were taught, as a group. We of course then applied it on each other to test it out.

Funny thing is that most people speak of combat in terms of modern day sport... I speak of combat from a life or death stand point... I have seen perfectly executed pre-arranged techniques pulled in REAL COMBAT that resulted in death of the opponent. The element of surprise and the timing were instrumental in their effectiveness.

[Lucas]

OK that's fine. Call it combo, drill... what you want. Still doesn't make trying to extrapolate a choke from it any less stupid.

i dont recall talking about any cross choke in the slightest.. but also in regards to crossing your arms in that movement....i would never block like that. ever. so you cross your arms and block a groin shot and then you get your face smashed in with the follow up punches to the feint kick that you 100% dedicated your guard to.

i dont go for the cross block ideas. sure it is a strong structure to block with, but it doesnt make sense to me. if i can get both of my arms down there to cross block i would have the time to move or try to catch the kick and move in for a sweep on the support

[Snipsky]

Yep, if he was doing the same exact thing over an over again, he'd be wasting his time as much as if he were doing a traditional form.

everything gets repeated over and over and over till they get it right. the same can be said when we learned our ABC's. So practicing sprawling over and over again is a waste of time?

Shadow boxing should be the movements done in a fight. If a boxer is doing the same movement over and over again, he's going to get knocked on his @ss in short order.

Still not quite as stupid as trying to extrapolate chokes from his movements.

you're still focused on one silly choke.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The issue of a move not being what it seems to be in a form is one that caught awhile back and one I never care much for.
The fact is:
The majority of attacks to which one blocks in a form are NOT strikes but attempts to grab.
Strikes come to fast and don't "stay" there long enough to be blocked ( typically) but grabs and attempted grabs do.
Many low blocks are actually low hammerfists or low forearm strikes and not blocks to kicks.
The upper block of karate, for example, in the majority of forms is a raising forearm smash, typically done VS an over head strike.
The bunkai of most forms stopped being taught and what was taught was crappy more often than not.
Blame the teachers and their teachers.

[pateticorecords]

i dont recall talking about any cross choke in the slightest.. but also in regards to crossing your arms in that movement....i would never block like that. ever. so you cross your arms and block a groin shot and then you get your face smashed in with the follow up punches to the feint kick that you 100% dedicated your guard to.

i dont go for the cross block ideas. sure it is a strong structure to block with, but it doesnt make sense to me. if i can get both of my arms down there to cross block i would have the time to move or try to catch the kick and move in for a sweep on the support

Standing Cross blocks were also taught to capture/grab the limb of the opponent...

[faxiapreta]

Thanks I was in the military for 8 years... that's how we were taught, as a group. We of course then applied it on each other to test it out.

Funny thing is that most people speak of combat in terms of modern day sport... I speak of combat from a life or death stand point... I have seen perfectly executed pre-arranged techniques pulled in REAL COMBAT that resulted in death of the opponent. The element of surprise and the timing were instrumental in their effectiveness.

Now imagine being a trained in your "forms" as an infantry fighter and then trying to "extrapolate" those "forms" as a Navy seal infiltrating the Bin Laden compound.

More than likely those extrapolations would get you killed.

[Snipsky]

The fact is:
The majority of attacks to which one blocks in a form are NOT strikes but attempts to grab.
Strikes come to fast and don't "stay" there long enough to be blocked ( typically) but grabs and attempted grabs do.

When people understand that, the blocks turn into more of a deflection, a shorter more compact version of what you practice in forms. you see it all the time in UFC

[sanjuro_ronin]

The cross block was NEVER a choke.
It was either a block or a strike.
Some forms were taught empty handed but were suppose to be done with a small weapon, many moves in Okinawan forms were to be done with a "tekko" or other small, concealed, handheld weapon.