Wrestling Roots

[donjitsu2]

very cool stuff Wenshu.

Thanks for the share.

[HumbleWCGuy]

yes, they are referred to by the traditional term "made up"

I don't know if I buy that entirely, but I would suspect that chin na is a prime target for LARPers to make fraudulent systems of. These clowns here are doing it with Shui jiao.
http://www.youtube.com/user/tigerstylekid

[YiQuanOne]

Nice. Finally someone posts about something that is real instead of the normal snake oil b.s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=756i6...eature=related

See how easy it is for them to show evidence of their techniques working against resisting opponents?

This looks like more evidence that this doen't work unless the other guy lets you do it, otherwise it is mostly just and back and forth fighting muscle against muscle.

[faxiapreta]

This looks like more evidence that this doen't work unless the other guy lets you do it, otherwise it is mostly just and back and forth fighting muscle against muscle.

This is exactly what things look like when you have two skilled opponents going full force.

But please show your evidence for what "real" kung fu looks like when trying to take down resisting skilled opponents.

Thank you for providing additional evidence for further cluelessness of the kung fu crowd.

No wonder you guys come of as such a joke.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Thank you for providing additional evidence for further cluelessness of the kung fu crowd.

This is an alternate account of someone who has been banned from the forum already.

[YiQuanOne]

This is exactly what things look like when you have two skilled opponents going full force.

But please show your evidence for what "real" kung fu looks like when trying to take down resisting skilled opponents.

Thank you for providing additional evidence for further cluelessness of the kung fu crowd.

No wonder you guys come of as such a joke.

Yes, two people resisting each other, just my point, no skill, just the stronger guy wins. Power against power, sounds like a high level art to me.

You made your point that you have no clue what a martial art is, and everyone knows by now that you are just a troll that is trying to side track threads.

Did your mommy not give you enough love?.

[YouKnowWho]

Yes, two people resisting each other, just my point, no skill, just the stronger guy wins. Power against power, sounds like a high level art to.

You will be in dis-advance 輸把(Shu Ba) if your opponent has

- 1 grip on you, but you have no grip on him.
- 2 grips on you, but you have only 1 grip on him.

When both you and your opponent have grips on each other, unless you break apart your opponent's grip (it takes strength), You have to use your grips to play both offense and defense. Sometime the dead lock situation can last for quite sometime. That's just the reality. To use the minimum amount force to achieve the maximum amount result can only work if your have much high level skill than your opponent does. If both have the same level skill, your opponent makes a move, you counter him, you make a move, your opponent countes you. Neither of you can generate speed and power. Wrestling could look like "bull fight" and not very pleasant to watch.

[YiQuanOne]

You will be in dis-advance 輸把(Shu Ba) if your opponent has

- 1 grip on you, but you have no grip on him.
- 2 grips on you, but you have only 1 grip on him.

When both you and your opponent have grips on each other, unless you break apart your opponent's grip (it takes strength), You have to use your grips to play both offense and defense. Sometime the dead lock situation can last for quite sometime. That's just the reality. To use the minimum amount force to achieve the maximum amount result can only work if your have much high level skill than your opponent does. If both have the same level skill, your opponent makes a move, you counter him, you make a move, your opponent countes you. Neither of you can generate speed and power. Wrestling could look like "bull fight" and not very pleasant to watch.

Yes well put.

If skill set limited by external level, you will always be fighting like bulls. That is where higher level MA's come into play, it does not depend on external muscle to counter opponets muscle.

Most of these things are yang/yang, when yang/yin is what you want or yin/yang, never have yang meet yang, then bull fight.

If opponet not able to meet yang with yin, then bull fight.

[mooyingmantis]

Of which systems? WC? Hung Gar? Praying Mantis? All of the above?

Praying Mantis (tanglangquan) incorporates all four: ti, da, shuai, na.

[YouKnowWho]

If opponet not able to meet yang with yin, then bull fight.

I strongly suggest "internal Qi" guys to compete in any Chinese wrestling tournament. There will be one coming up in 10/23 in Chicago. If you can win the championship in that tournament, all the Chinese wrestlers in US will all want to learn from you (how to use "internal" on the mat). That will be the best way to prove that "internal" is superior than "external".

Without trying yourself, it will be hard to understand why the Yin/Yang theory won't work well in the Chinese wrestling environment.

[faxiapreta]

When both you and your opponent have grips on each other, unless you break apart your opponent's grip (it takes strength), You have to use your grips to play both offense and defense. Sometime the dead lock situation can last for quite sometime. That's just the reality. To use the minimum amount force to achieve the maximum amount result can only work if your have much high level skill than your opponent does. If both have the same level skill, your opponent makes a move, you counter him, you make a move, your opponent countes you. Neither of you can generate speed and power. Wrestling could look like "bull fight" and not very pleasant to watch.

Finally, a post that makes sense. Bravo!

Why don't you post things like this all the time instead of simply trying to "defend TCMA"?

I strongly suggest "internal Qi" guys to compete in any Chinese wrestling tournament (there will be one in 10/23 in Chicago). If you can win the championship, all the Chinese wrestlers in the world will want to learn from you. That will be the best way to prove that "internal" is superior than "external".

Internal qi guys don't compete because it proves the non-existence of their qi methods.

[lkfmdc]

I don't know if I buy that entirely,

30 plus years, been around the globe including China, speak a few dialects and can read and write, WHERE is this chin na style?

[HumbleWCGuy]

30 plus years, been around the globe including China, speak a few dialects and can read and write, WHERE is this chin na style?

What about the White Crane Chin NA? I accept that you might have been around and what but you were probably not investigating Chin na specifically, correct? I am not saying that I know for sure because it isn't important for me to be sure. I know of some people discussing having specifically Chin Na instructors.

[SPJ]

Wrestling could look like "bull fight" and not very pleasant to watch.

yes. when both are with equal skills

then it is a test of the will

just like staring contest with eyes

whoever moves/blinks first or first hint of changing position

(you lose your balance when you change from one posture to another)

will lose

the other one will take advantage of this brief moment of opportunity

this is where all the yin and yang come into play.

--

[jdhowland]

What about the White Crane Chin NA? I accept that you might have been around and what but you were probably not investigating Chin na specifically, correct? I am not saying that I know for sure because it isn't important for me to be sure. I know of some people discussing having specifically Chin Na instructors.

Are you referring to Yang Jwing Ming's books? Those are illustrations of part of the white crane system, not taught separately.

I have seen a book or two written about chin na exclusively. It's a worthwhile aspect of training but, frankly, it doesn't work without the other three aspects.