Duty of Care

[joedoe]

I think Pure Killah was probably reacting to your ending line - gotta admit it surprised me until I realised it was your tag :).

Anyway, whether Ego & Goktimus are one person or two, he/they are closed minded idiots. I have decided that while I will follow the progress of this thread, I will no longer allow myself to be drawn into the 'discussion'. I think the original thread has long since died and all that remains is a swinging dicks contest.

To everyone in general: It is admirable that so many people are so passionate about the martial arts and in particular kung fu, but don't you think that threatening to kill someone is going a little too far?

One final shot at Ego/Goktimus: Open your mind, not your butt.

[pure killah]

dont sweat it boris i aint got no beef wid you either what i meant was!!!! s**t i forgot what i meant but im sure i wasnt having a go at you when i wrote it but im sure about one thing if that motherf**ker doesnt want to get his d**k chopped of have it shoved in his mouth then sow his lips together he better watch what the f**k he says and watch who the f**k hes f**king with cause if i get my hands on that ***** im gonna tear him apart!!!!

[Fish of Fury]

where is goktimus anyway.
he hasn't replied for a while, i hope none of you brutes bruised his ego, cos he'll sue. :rolleyes:

[Shaolin Temple]

Peace brother...hey pure killah, thanks for your support but chill out man. Like great Muhammed said, he is special...ease it into him slowly...I talking about information okay...not your schlong!!!

No more comments? What happened to the teacher? Nothing more to say...perhaps Socrates saying applies here, a question well asked is halfly answered. Whoa, was the case studies too heavy for you goktimus/ego...Muhammed...any solution for teaching the special few amongst us?

[This message was edited by Shaolin Temple on 02-12-01 at 07:30 PM.]

[joedoe]

Maybe he's too busy with his head in the sand :)

To the Author of Pure Killah

I appreciate your critique of the virtual & fictional character "Ego Maximus" that had been created specifically for this forum.

However, in your last post you have threatened me with publically on this forum. I consider this to be a serious matter which I have every intention to take up with the relevant Authorities in Australia. Threathening others with physical force be it verbally, written or transmitted through any electronic means is ILLIGAL!

If you retract you earlier statmentment, I may decide to take it into consideration in my follow up course of action on this issue.

Furthermore, I advise that "Goktimus Prime" is not a character of my creation. I notice that you have also made the same threat to the Author of "Goktimus Prime". How you intend to follow up on this issue is entirely your decision. Nevertheless, you are fully aware of your legal stand point.

This is no joke. To the other Members and Moderators, I thank you for your attention.

Have a good day.

Ego Maximize!

[Boris]

Ego/Goktimus you dog-felating, anal retentive stupid sunnuva b!tch! What's your problem?

Your mother drop you at birth and decide to do a bellyflop on you or something? What's this BS about suing people? C'om sue all of us because I'm pretty sure everyone wants to pound twelve shades of grey out of you anyway besides Pure Killah. You insult style after style and it's nothing personal, is it? Nah, because if it is, you'll sue. Man, I'm scared. Wait a minute, aren't you a martial arts "teacher"? A martial arts "teacher" so in touch with his Chi and ability that your attorney has all your Chi. I'm sure Wong Fei Hung and all the Kung Fu heroes did that when they were in trouble. Man, I really feel sorry for your Sifu to have such a disrespectful student.

Don't deny you're not Goktimus, all the evidence points to you and I'm pretty sure, everyone is sick to death of your crap. You think denial and this legal BullSh!t will take the heat off you? Don't count on it.

PEOPLE: Want more proof? They both have an urge to sue people when someone gets "hurt". I'm actually sorry for his mother, since she'll be sued every time he trips over in the yard, for neglecting to make the property safe enough for him to live there.

If you hold anything back, I'll kill you. If you bend the truth, or if I think you're bending the truth, I'll kill you. If you forget anything, I'll kill you. In fact, you're going to have to work very hard to stay alive, Nick. I hope you understand everything

[This message was edited by Boris The Blade on 02-13-01 at 04:16 AM.]

[Goktimus Prime]

*deep sigh*

First of all, lemme clear some things up.

1. I'm not Ego Maximus. In case you haven't noticed, he spells "Maximise" with the Greek "-ize" ending used in US English, where I would've used the Latin "-ise" ending used in normal English. (also, his messages just aren't long winded enough to be from me!) ;p

2. Traditions do not supercede the law. You can have a tradition of marrying your first cousin, but that doesn't excuse you from breaking the law.

3. Call me a wuss. Yeah, you guys are so brave you can resort to flaming people over the Internet. Aw gee, that takes guts (note the extreme sarcasm). As I already pointed out extensively in my original message, I was NOT criticising the act of doing arm knocking, I was commenting on the way it was taught. LEARNING/CONDITIONING IS A GRADUAL PROCESS. When you go into a gym for the first time, you don't usually start with the 100kg barbell straight away. Usually you start with small hand weights and work your way up as your strength improves. When you learn to swim for the very first time as a kid, the instructor doesn't shove you in the pool and ask you to swim 200m. No, you're usually taught to tread water and use the kickboard first. When you learn a new language, you don't expect to have a science journal written in the target language tossed at you. No. You learn the script, then how to make words, then phrases, sentences, grammar etc. --> and you progress through stages. Even most martial arts schools have grades. And why? Because you start from a low level and work your way up. You do not start from the advanced level straight away. It's THAT bloody simple!! If they had started arm knocking at a level that I could cope with, and built up from there, then I would have nothing to complain about.

4. Can someone give me some NAMES of texts where you're getting information about these other Shaolin temples? I'd like to read up on it. Oh, and I will check out that web site later on. Thank you.

5. I am defending the right of others. Even if other people go to that school and want to be bruised, they can't. This is because you can NOT waver your own human rights. As I said before, just as you can NOT consent to slavery, you also can NOT consent to being directly injured.

6. I do understand that injuries occur in martial arts. I've taken a fair few of them myself (this incident was NOT my first injury) -- but what made this case an exception was the fact that the injury arose due to negligence/lack of duty of care. Stop generalising everything.

7. For those of you who have thrown names at me like "wanker" or "gay" etc., what are you? Fourth graders?!

If you're going to make any further comments, please do so in a RATIONAL manner. Believe it or not, you CAN disagree with someone without needing to lower yourself to a flame war.

Oh, and if you're wondering why I don't frequent this board often, well.. it's because I've already repeated my points over and over again, and well, if you can't understand it or even contribute in a semi academic fashion, then I'm just not going to bother continuing to participate in this thread.

No, I'm not "chickening out" -- I just don't want to waste MY time talking to people who can't make a relevant contribution to this issue. It's that simple.

"Wit is educated insolence." - Aristotle (284-322 BC)

[prana]

Goktimus,
"The wok calls the kettle black"... I think I speak for all of us, you should stick to your books and literature, and keep them to youself. You seem to be good at it. Don't corrupt our art with your knowledge. You may not wish to respect our legendary traditions, that is fine with me (and I think I speak for the rest of us), but you ought to keep your whinning to someone who gives a ****.

By the posts that have been here, it seems you are a thorn in many ones shoes. First I see you created enemies in Wuchu and by the sounds of it, Wing Chun.

Ego Max
"You can't save another with your head in the water". It seems you have resolve to a weaker solution to keep yourself afloat. Stand up for yourself! Otherwise we may not ever find you again under the dirt that you hide.

Martials Arts is after all about self discipline and self knowledge, and Max as for you, it is definitely NOT about fist fighting.

You people may win a case with the law but the way you are going, I wonder what self-respect you have left.

[Muhammad]

*deep *****

I see Goktimus u have finally overcome your weakness and post again, not once quoting "Oww, this is painful, stop it!" . Well done u have progress far my special friend. Yes Goktimus u are right about them not listening to u, they still have not realise that LEARNING/CONDITIONING IS A GRADUAL PROCESS and for u it just happens to be more gradual then usual, and we know why, it is b'cause u are special, don't worry i understand, but many people might not:)

As well i agree with goktimus defending his human rights, we know that due to his weakness he has more rights and it is our duty as martial artist to use our skill to defend the weaker and less fortunate like Goktimus, as we can NOT waver your own human rights, we can NOT waver his weakness.

For those of you who have thrown names at him like "wanker" or "gay", well there is just too much for him to understand all this different terms at once, so please just call him special.

Oh and don't worry about those threats about beatin u up, My suggestion is to make your bones stonger by taking more calcium tablet or if you prefer a more "natural" alternative, milk is good and so are cheeses. This way he will not be able to hurt u because u will have bones of steal, compared to the people who has only been usin arm hittin and dit da jao, as those people will be bruise and unable hurt u.

So don't worry my special boy all is well in Martial Arts land and yes "it is alright to be special"

There is only one god and Muhammad is his prophet

[This message was edited by MUHAMMAD on 02-13-01 at 03:35 PM.]

[joedoe]

Ego, don't worry about pure killah - he sounds like a fruit loop.

How do you know he is from Australia though? I couldn't find that out.

If he is, you've got nothing to worry about because he can't carry out his threats from over 8000 miles (13000 kms) away.

[joedoe]

Goktimus,

On Southern Shaolin, have a look at this thread:

http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/Open...02&m=762192363

It is a discussion on other Southern arts but covers a great deal of ground on Southern Shaolin, as well as mentioning some texts/thesis on the subject.

Hope this helps.

[whitelion]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and was surprised when I found this topic here. I am an instructor in the Shaolin Wu Chu Chuan school that Goktimus Prime attended but was away at the time of the incident he relates. Anything I say here is not an official response from the school, and are purely my own statements and opinions.

Firstly, arm knocking is not considered an advanced training technique in our school - if we practice it during a class, even beginners are taught the arm knocking technique.

Secondly, we are a traditional school and we are proud of our heritage. Many of us also train very hard, and are very enthusiastic about the art. Also, as we train a lot of what we call 'heavy hands' (I don't know if other styles train this), somtimes people don't realise they are generating as much power as they do. Especially less experienced students.

It is regrettable that Goktimus Prime and his friend were injured. I have not heard the full story from my fellow instructors and students, but I have heard some of it. Goktimus has also been kind enough to enlighten me further on what occurred through this subject posting.

This is probably completely unrelated, but I had heard from other students that Goktimus Prime did not exactly behave in a respectful manner during the class, both towards the instructors and to other students.

I am not saying that Goktimus is wrong or right, and I wasn't there so everything (including Goktimus Prime's account) I say here is hearsay, but that there may be more to the story than Goktimus Prime has related.

Again, This is not an official reply from the club, and I have no beef with you Goktimus Prime. Neither is this reply intended to refute you or to antagonise you in any way. I am just pointing out some things I have heard from a few students.

I understand your point about duty of care, but there is also such a thing as common sense.

As Goktimus also pointed out, there have been measures taken to ensure that new students are more carefully monitored. We have taken this incident on board and have tried to learn from it.

Talk softly and carry a big stick.

[This message was edited by Broad Sword on 02-13-01 at 08:19 PM.]

[Boris]

My sympathy goes out to your school. People like this shouldn't even be allowed to practice Karate or Tae Kwon Do let alone Kung Fu. I am sorry that he visited your school and kicked up a fuss over nothing.

I asked a friend of mine who is a lawyer on this subject and he said that the person who owns the place where you train may be responsible if you injure yourself using equipment on the premises. This ofcourse doesn't excuse stupidity and if you do something stupid on the premises, thats up to you. Secondly, if you do something consensually, you have the responsibility to stop when it gets dangerous. It's like driving, if you know going over 60 Km/Hr is going to be dangerous on a wet road then you should try to slow down. This is the same here, if it starts to hurt beyond belief, it is your responisbility to stop and not be a complete Wanker and continue doing it, while the pain is killing you. You can't say this wasn't consensual, you CHOSE to participate and continue even when it hurt. No body ever FORCES anybody to do anything in any class. You did a dumb thing, and you blame someone else, it is the true sign of a wanker!

Personally, this is martial arts not Ballet, pain is going to be part of the norm in classes. I've have had minor amounts of pain, but I think conditioning will hurt to various degrees. Sure, you have to learn gradually, but if you ever done any exercise, you know the pain when muscle begins to grow to make you stronger. So if you don't feel pain in physical exercise Goktimus/EGO maximum Wanker, you both are stupid fat arseholes.

If you hold anything back, I'll kill you. If you bend the truth, or if I think you're bending the truth, I'll kill you. If you forget anything, I'll kill you. In fact, you're going to have to work very hard to stay alive, Nick. I hope you understand everything

[prana]

Now I see what is going on. It seems the skunk thought if he could hide in the dark that he might be mistaken for a harmless squirrel.

Broadsword, kudo's for enlightening us man !