Duty of Care

hey man if ya where injured why did ya keep going???and dont say that they wouldnt let u...because u know as well as i do that they would have stoped if ya told them too!!!!i have and idea for ya why dont ya lift weights and put some muscle on those weak arms of urs!!!!!and stop complaining!!!!!

[Goktimus Prime]

I can't believe how immature some people are here. Babbling on in a thuglike manner about, "I'm strong, you're weak" etc etc., and pretending to know anything about the learning process. (not to mention ignorance of Tongans... if you'd ever met a Tongan, you'd know that they're NOT wimps - Tongans are BIG people - so if a Tongan is feeling pain...) *sigh* Anyway, I'm not even going to bother to dignify those comments with a reply (waste of time). I'm only going to reply to relevant comments.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Firstly, arm knocking is not considered an advanced training technique in our school - if we practice it during a class, even beginners are taught the arm knocking technique.[/quote]

That's what I thought, but when I went back there do discuss this issue, one of the instructors told me that it was an advanced technique.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Secondly, we are a traditional school and we are proud of our heritage. Many of us also train very hard, and are very enthusiastic about the art. Also, as we train a lot of what we call 'heavy hands' (I don't know if other styles train this), somtimes people don't realise they are generating as much power as they do. Especially less experienced students.[/quote]

Then it would be up to the instructors to ensure that nobody is going too rough on others. Likewise, you also need to ensure that someone isn't going too weak on someone you know can tolerate more power (otherwise they won't gain any benefit from the exercise).

Part of being a teacher is to know how much or how little to give to a student. Allow me to make an analogy with school education. In NSW Special Education covers the education of both the intellectually gifted and the intellectually challenged (the gov't has lumped them together to save money, 'cos they're cheap). Whereas traditionally, the intellectually challenged were placed in special schools, we are seeing a reversal of this trend, with the gov't systematically closing down schools for the intellectually challenged and integrating them with regular students. Also, gifted students are being removed and placed into special selective schools. However, placements in selective schools are limited, so we do still get a lot of bright students entering regular schools. This leaves the average classroom with an extremely diverse range of students in terms of intellect.

Therefore, some universities have now deemed it compulsory for student teahers such as myself to be trained in Special Education (ie: we MUST be qualified to teach both the intellectually gifted and handicapped) -- although not all unis do this (I see no need to start naming any universities here).

Obviously you're not going to give the same tasks, or at least, not at the same level, to all students. Challenged students will become confused and frustrated. Gifted students will become bored and frustrated. Therefore, you need to give tasks at an appropriate level to the student.

Even if ALL the students in your class are of equal intellect, you still need to give different levels of tasks depending on their level. That's why we have different grades in high school -- year 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 -- with each level becoming increasingly harder.

Now Broad Sword, I'm sure you understand this, but what I'm saying is that students should also have some understanding of this as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This is probably completely unrelated, but I had heard from other students that Goktimus Prime did not exactly behave in a respectful manner during the class, both towards the instructors and to other students.[/quote]

Allow me to clarify what happened. When I went back to talk to the other instructors about what happened, one of them told me that one of the students I sparred with complained that I was too rough with him. Now, I did not do this intentionally, and if he had TOLD me that I was going too fast, or that I was being too strong, then I would have happily slowed down for him.

The fact is, he didn't say anything like, "this is hurting me," which does NOT mean you're a wimp. It just means that you KNOW your limitations. If he had told me that I was being too fast or strong, I would not (unlike some other thugs on this thread) laughed at him and said, "hahahah, you're a weak wanker, you should leave this school because you're too wimpy to do martial arts" or any other NONSENSE like that. I would have apologised, and then continued the drill at a slower pace.

I was a newbie at the school, so I don't know what level the students are at. The fellow I was sparring with was actually pretty strong and fast, so I thought he could handle a bit more speed and power.

If I was doing anything that someone didn't approve of, all they had to do was tell me. It happens a lot because no two martial arts schools are the same, and try as you may to train in other schools, it's a fact of life that different schools have different rules, regulations and standards. The same thing happens when other MAs visit our school. We don't get offended by it. We either ignore it, or just say, "look, we prefer to practise this way because (insert reason)."

I apologised to the instructors for any offence, but again, it was not intentional.

The difference between what happened there and what happened with me was that I <u>did</u> say that I was feeling pain.

Hypothetically speaking, even <u>if</u> I HAD intentionally hurt that other student, the school would still be liable. So really, it is in the instructor's best interest to make sure that NONE of your students are hurting each other, because if someone does get seriously injured, it is not the offending student who is liable, but the teacher/school.

But as an insured instructor, I'm sure you already knew that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am not saying that Goktimus is wrong or right, and I wasn't there so everything (including Goktimus Prime's account) I say here is hearsay, [/quote]

Well, I'm very glad that you've actually made a RATIONAL reply instead of some of the more barbaric responses from some of the other users here.

Thank you for using common sense.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but that there may be more to the story than Goktimus Prime has related.[/quote]

Well, I was merely referring to the arm knocking.

It was a regrettable incident, but as the disclaimer on my first message said, this discussion thread was merely commenting on the way that arm knocking was taught that night.

It was a comment on the WAY it was taught.

I was in NO way making ANY comment about Shaolin Wuchu. In fact, I still do have respect for that school as I always have. The main reason why I raised awareness of this incident to the instructors was because: (a) I don't want to see any other students in that school get hurt, and (b) I don't want to see a good Kung Fu school get into legal trouble due to something that is really, easily avoidable.

If I was doing this for personal profit or to simply cause trouble to the school, I would have already contacted my solicitor and taken legal action a long time ago (which is what my friend who came along, wanted me to do, but I talked him out of it).

I've recommended that Wuchu school to other people (especially those interested in Southern Kung Fu or in retracing the origins of Karate) and I will most likely continue to do so. The only possible difference would be that in future, I would tell people that if they feel uncomfortable with any exercises, to immediately tell one of the instructors. Something I'm sure you'd agree would be in the best interests of everyone.

Hope that clears things up.

"Wit is educated insolence." - Aristotle (284-322 BC)

[This message was edited by Goktimus Prime on 02-14-01 at 09:35 PM.]

[whitelion]

Goktimus Prime:

I am glad to hear that you bear no ill will towards the school, as IMHO it is a good school.

Sometimes students do get a little carried away with their training and maybe don't realise how hard they are going at it. I am not making excuses, I am just stating a fact :). As I'm sure you would be willing to admit, people make mistakes.

As I said previously, measures have been taken to ensure that similar incidents do not occur.

Thank you for your concern. Your comments have been taken into consideration.

------------------------------------
Talk softly and carry a big stick.

[Boris]

I give up. This is too much BS for my liking. If I was getting somewhere with this, I would, but Goktimus fa99ot / Ego Maximum pu55y seem too stupid to understand and will probably pull a court case on my arse if I do try. So it's been fun but it's not over yet.

Broadsword : What type of idiot are you? This guy insulted and took the pi55 out of your school man.
You should be breathin' ash and fire. Just because he threatened you with his "legal" action doesn't excuse you from becoming a total pu55y. Stand up for yourself man, or atleast your school. Tradition and methods of teaching were passed down so that it would ensure that if you needed to use them, you would be tough enough to kill the other person, decapitate him and eat his kidneys with a glass of Chianti and fava beans. If you change this training, your school WILL SUCK BIG TIME!!!!!!!. So I'm urging you to reconsider all these precautions, you will be killing the art and spirit of your style.

I know Goktimus, so you have retired the character of Ego. You've been caught with your pants down blowing the cleaner. I don't blame you, since no one else will agree with you. I'm not going to bother with your longwinded crap, although I've read it. Read some of the posts again and you'll gleam some very important lessons that you are currently too pig headed to realise. I certainly can't be bothered to explain them so Adios FAT ASS! Tell me when you master all the Lui Kang Bicycle kick, will you. That's the only Kung Fu you'll ever practice. mOVE CLOUDS WITH YOUR CHI.

It's been fun people, see you on another more constructive thread.
_________________________________________________

If you hold anything back, I'll kill you. If you bend the truth, or if I think you're bending the truth, I'll kill you. If you forget anything, I'll kill you. In fact, you're going to have to work very hard to stay alive, Nick. I hope you understand everythin

[This message was edited by Boris The Blade on 02-15-01 at 08:53 PM.]

[whitelion]

I don't feel I have capitulated at all. I see no point in getting into a argument over this with Goktimus Prime. The incident is in the past.

I feel no slight has been put upon the school. We still train the same way, with the same enthusiasm. The measures that have been put in place just ensure that instructors keep a closer eye on new students to make sure they don't over do it, and to make sure that the training hall is as safe as possible for a traditional martial arts school.

If you are worried that we are seeling out, come to a class and train with us and see for yourself :).

In fact, I have already received several enquiries from people interested in training in the style, probably as a result of this topic.

If Goktimus had said something along the lines of "Your school sucks arse" or something just as disrespectful, then I would get worked up about it. But not on this forum. I would wait until he visited my school again then I would settle it then. Even then, I would not necessarily threaten violence.

Besides, does it really matter what other people think of your school? I think that the only thing that matters is what I think of it.

There is no point in threatening people on the forum. You just waste your energy getting worked up over postings.

After all, our school motto is 'Tolerance'.

------------------------------------
Talk softly and carry a big stick.

[This message was edited by Broad Sword on 02-15-01 at 09:21 PM.]

But if I'm Boris the tennis player:
I'll mounth out on court and play crap tennis!

But if I'm Boris the Psycho:
I'll wish to be Hannible Lector but I'm too stupid, talk to loud and carry too small a stick!

But if I'm Boris the W@nker:
I'll w@nk myself silly with my pants on and soil my undies!

But if I'm Boris the Dog:
I'll bark till my owner put me down.

But if I'm Boris the prisoner:
I'll be proud to be a man-b1tch!

But if I'm Boris the cook:
I'll stay in the kitchen BUT I can't handle the WIT!

Ego Energized!, Maximus Maximized!! and Boris SOD@MIZED!!!

Ego Maximus has been reformatted to a BIGGER and BOLDER Ego and knows full well how to use it. Prepared to transformed on this forum! Initiating down load sequence......

Ego Maximize!

[Budokan]

My God I can't believe this troll post is still going on!

:eek:

I came over here to see if anything new was posted about health/fitness, and here I find Gotkimus still jabbering the prattle of the dead!

Kee-rist, enough already about your sore arms and your bruised ego. We get it. We understand. We don't care.

K. Mark Hoover

[premier]

Why are you all getting ****ed off because of that? Goktimus argumented everything he said correctly and stated that he didn't wan't to badmouth about the school. This something that I can't say about most of you guys who post here.

Training hard is ok and it necessary to get any results. I do it myself and I enjoy it. But you seem to miss the point Goktimus was trying to say. You gotta have good foundation before you can go on.

Just like you don't start learning the most advanced form of the style on your first class, you can't just go on and start to use the advanced condition methods. no matter how hard ass you are and how much pain you can take, your hands can't probably take it. and even if yours does, the other people in the class might not be able to take it. The instructors should concider all the students in the class and advance gradually.

So why are you all so ****ed off at him? doesn't that make sense to you? I mean.. it really should. at least if you use your brains.

or was the problem that you didn't bother to read his post to the end and assumed what he was saying?

[katrina_stearns]

People

What is this arm knocking that you're talking about?

It interest me from it's ability to cause pain. How do you restrain each other before you knock the arms?

I would like to know as I could lose my client, a Kung Fu Man if I don't make him submit.

Submit to me. I know you want to.

GOKTIMUS its whoosy!!!!! kungfu instructors like you who potray kungfu to non martialart or other styles as a performance art only which i would like to point to you is not .IF YOU ARE **** IN YOUR NORTHEN PRAYING MANTIS .....then so be it ,but dont try to whinge about WU CHU KUNG FU becauce you cannot handle a simple so called conditioning exercise from what i gather WU CHU KUNGFU is a proper AUTHENTIC MARTIALART which can be used in day to day threathening street situation. GOKTIMUS it sounds like a WU CHU student made you **** in your pants, ha ha an instructor of NORTHEN PRAYING MANTIS,TAI CHI,BIGUA.cannot handle a student .......then you had better stop teaching NORTHEN PRAYING MANTIS to anybody except yourself keep your BULL**** secret training to yourself and dont ambarras the NORTHEN MANTIS style you are doing ,maybe call your so call teaching ow ow ow style.Ahem sounds like something up yours..........!!!!!!!!Then go wipe yourself and dont stink other styles ,you bloody!!!!!!!whimp .Go reflect on yourself ,maybe joint up with WU CHU as a jounior student and learn something good and practical .YOU BLOODY WHOOSH!!!!! MAKE ME SICK WITH ALL YOUR ,OWWWWWWWWOWWWWOWWWW!!!!!!!! A word of advise, use a TAMPOON when you train so you dont stink the training area and polute the enviroment or you might get sued for poluting .SUE ,SUE ,SUE.......go sue your own ass .

kelvein chan

GOKTIMUS its whoosy!!!!! kungfu instructors like you who potray kungfu to non martialart or other styles as a performance art only which i would like to point to you is not .IF YOU ARE **** IN YOUR NORTHEN PRAYING MANTIS .....then so be it ,but dont try to whinge about WU CHU KUNG FU becauce you cannot handle a simple so called conditioning exercise from what i gather WU CHU KUNGFU is a proper AUTHENTIC MARTIALART which can be used in day to day threathening street situation. GOKTIMUS it sounds like a WU CHU student made you **** in your pants, ha ha an instructor of NORTHEN PRAYING MANTIS,TAI CHI,BIGUA.cannot handle a student .......then you had better stop teaching NORTHEN PRAYING MANTIS to anybody except yourself keep your BULL**** secret training to yourself and dont ambarras the NORTHEN MANTIS style you are doing ,maybe call your so call teaching ow ow ow style.Ahem sounds like something up yours..........!!!!!!!!Then go wipe yourself and dont stink other styles ,you bloody!!!!!!!whimp .Go reflect on yourself ,maybe joint up with WU CHU as a jounior student and learn something good and practical .YOU BLOODY WHOOSH!!!!! MAKE ME SICK WITH ALL YOUR ,OWWWWWWWWOWWWWOWWWW!!!!!!!! A word of advise, use a TAMPOON when you train so you dont stink the training area and polute the enviroment or you might get sued for poluting .SUE ,SUE ,SUE.......go sue your own ass .ASS HOLE

kelvein chan

[Stark_Fujikawa]

hmm, interesting, in the last 2 posts, we see a certain Kelvin Chan insulting Goktimus for his lack of resolve/intestinal fortitude/whateever. Considering that a person by the name of Kelvin Chan also goes under the moniker of Goktimus Prime... hmmm
perhaps this will clarify things :
http://www.geocities.com/goktimus/english_index.html

explicitly stated : 'Goktimus Prime (known in real life as Kelvin Chan) '
anybody wish to clarify?

[Lucky Red]

is this Discussion Still going on i cannot Belive
it


the Hardest Fight is the the one With yourself

[Budokan]

It was a troll post to begin with, that's why it's still going on and that's why the same person under two different names is posting.

K. Mark Hoover

GOKTIMUS Prime reckons you all have lost your cool and control ,proper training is usefull in real situations,and all those threats and loudmouths in front of the screen shows how weak you all are.He all he has to do is put one hand behind his back and using one simple mantis go for pear move and you all had it .Want a taste of it ,you all have lost your wind before you make your move ,its speed that counts,AMATEURS

guru