How do you defend against this?

[donjitsu2]

Woman Assaulted by "Dozens" of Teens/Young Adults

How do you defend against something like this: A group of people who decide to lash out at strangers for the hell of it?

All the Kung Fu/MMA/Sanda/Karate/Krav Maga in the world won't save you from 12+ people bent on beating the dog sh!t out of you.

Obviously, situational awareness and avoiding known bad areas is the first line of good self defense, but what happens if you're at a social event like a downtown festival, outdoor concert, sporting event, ect... and this crap happens?

Similar situations have occurred in Chicago, Charlotte, and Philadelphia

How can you REALISTICALLY protect yourself and your family from stuff like this?

Guns/Weapons?

Run Like he11?

Turtle-up and hope help arrives?

I've just been thinking a lot about this lately and I want to know what you guys think.


Train Hard,
Josh Skinner

[Lucas]

ive been there and ive been beaten. if you get caught into the middle of it, nothing you can do but turtle and hope you survive. you cannot run, you cannot fight, not for very long. if you pull a weapon you'll likely end up dead instead of broken. (assuming you are getting beaten by serious individuals) a gun might or might not deter. a knife wont do anything. if you can pull the gun ahead of time thats your best shot, but then you just might end up getting shot instead from behind.

preventative awareness and action... if you can run before you get surrounded, do it.

[TenTigers]

as you said, situational awareness is key. Always scope out your area, look for exits, alcoves, and do some serious profiling. When it goes down, be ready and exit the area asap. Some of these kids strike out at random people. You don't want to be in the crowd.
Watch to see where it is coming from and go in the opposite direction and become invisible.
When you have a good vantage point, pick them off one by one, from the rear and work your way toward the front. Use a suppressor and a flash hider to cover muzzle flash and report.

[SPJ]

I would opt for run and cover.

if you fight even with a club

one of them will get you

you will be subdued.

--

[SPJ]

even a bear or a lion

will walk away from a wolf pack

--

no shame in this.

[Ray Pina]

When I first moved down here to Puerto Rico I got "jumped" by three guys -- one with a pipe -- over a surfing-related incident/localism. I wrote about it here after it happened and I called and thanked my master.

I used my board as a spear/shield and was able to partially deflect the thrown pipe which I recovered after receiving a small gash in my thigh.... the situation was then deflated. I walked home and didn't need stitches.

A week later roughly 15 people came at me, one with a knife and two with guns wrapped in T-shirts.... I'm friends with both those guys now, incidentally. The plan was to shoot me in the leg.

In that instance, after a brief standoff with the dude with the knife, I ran like hell to my truck, took off, and resided to surf the "American" breaks for about 6 to 8 months until things cooled down/I made friends.

I wouldn't consider either incident a victory but the difference the training made, and people here have told me they were impressed by, is that I wasn't scared or bullied away. I stayed.... and I didn't go to the cops.

[GeneChing]

...asking how to defend against an airplane crash.

I was working in the music industry when rap rose up and was witness to a few riots where it was many against one. In one situation, a rent-a-cop was working for security. He was beaten and his gun was stolen. It was fired in the auditorium and there's just nothing like when a crowd runs from gunfire like that. Now, to be able to carry at a concert requires a permit obviously, and that individual wasn't naive. That show was in Oakland where security is tested regularly. That gun bearer just got caught. He survived, but it was very unfortunate. You can 20/20 hindsight that situation all you like, but sometimes you just draw a bad card. You can take all the preventative measures you like, but sometimes fate hands you that bad card, and you just have to do what it takes to survive. There's no use worrying about it.

[YiQuanOne]

Iron shirt Chi Kung might help.

[Snipsky]

In that instance, after a brief standoff with the dude with the knife, I ran like hell to my truck, took off, and resided to surf the "American" breaks for about 6 to 8 months until things cooled down/I made friends.

I wouldn't consider either incident a victory but the difference the training made, and people here have told me they were impressed by, is that I wasn't scared or bullied away. I stayed.... and I didn't go to the cops.

you proved you were down. they have to respect that.

[Scott R. Brown]

I'm a homebody! I just avoid drunken crowds!

[SPJ]

if you have the high voltage zapper or stunner

every body will yield

or you just zap thru the crowd and leave behind a trail of lots of down and twitching people

or till your voltage is out.

---

[Ray Pina]

I'm with you... especially now that I'm getting married. If I'm out alone after dark its because I'm on my way home from class.

I'm also 100% in agreement with Gene. You can't prepare for those kinds of situations, because they're random and each one is unique. But you can prepare yourself and mind for chaotic situation.

Another scary moment that was a dud. I was at the Marijuana March in NYC right after Columbine happened. I went off to my my girlfriend at the time something to eat or drink and a large crowd just started running towards me with panic on their face. And it grew as people around noticed. It was so dense I got behind a tree so the mass would pass.

When it thinned out I ran over to where my friends were... nothing really happened to spark that. Something caused a group to panic and it grew from there.

The issue though was, what if there was gun fire? I secured myself momentarily, didn't hear shots and made my way to my friends. I wonder what I would have done if I did hear shots.

[SPJ]

we are not a soldier that is fighting a war.

in that case we will go where the shots are fired.

we are civilians that are trying to survive the street violence or panic crowds.

in this case, we stay down or find cover and run the opposite direction of shots sound.

--

[Snipsky]

The issue though was, what if there was gun fire? I secured myself momentarily, didn't hear shots and made my way to my friends. I wonder what I would have done if I did hear shots.

First natural reaction that we've had was to drop to the ground. but once we were at a party and a fight was gonna break out until someone pulled out a huge hand gun (like dirty harry) and put it in my friends face. that was a tough situation cause we wanted to get him and if it weren't for that gun we would have. All you can do in a situation like that is give up. drop the drama or get shot. i don't think that guy wanted to shoot anyone, just get out of there cause nothing happened. in retrospect you have to let out a big sigh cause it could have gotten really ugly.

[donjitsu2]

a gun might or might not deter. a knife wont do anything. if you can pull the gun ahead of time thats your best shot, but then you just might end up getting shot instead from behind.

See, I don't think a gun (or any weapon really) is a viable option.

A gun COULD work, but you'd have to deploy it and I feel like people seriously overestimate how quickly they can draw their weapon.

I'm not sure I 100% agree with Gene, but he makes a good point.

Though I think there are ways you can prepare yourself mentally for such a situation.