Swaui jao no good. Judo so good.

[Mattador]

Note: This is a thread about swai jiao and NOT Robert W. Smith. I just threw his name in for background.

I read the chapter written by the recently departed Robert W. Smith and wanted to bring this up in a separate thread.

This is not a thread bashing him so do not get all, "Oh, he just passed away so let us not discuss this."

He thought judo was better and i believe this is natural for him since he studied judo.

Swai jiao has its list of issues though. First off too many people just happen to be teaching swai jiao today but their main art is ba gua, or tai chi, or whatever. How do these people claim to teach swai jiao when swai jiao is actually its own art? i think it is marketing to have throwing in their school since mma is so big.

Judo has belts. Swai jiao...not so much. I do not believe they have one ranking system which is problematic. This allows my unqualified son to teach in my name after i die even though he was not a blackbelt among blackbelts. I taught him the secrets while I was yelling at him to do his homework when no one else was looking.

The main issue with these people teaching swai jiao is that they have never won a swai jiao competition. And I believe you need to have actually won a bunch of them just to make sure the gold metal was a fluke.

And lastly what I have heard about swai jiao competition is not good. Sifu Gino posted this in another thread about some competition in Ohio. He said that if you pay the competition fee, and there is no on in your weight class, you can either take the gold metal or get your money back. Well whupteedooda. I just won the competition, mom. Wow, you must have kicked a s s, son. No, actually no one showed up so I won by the kung fu of showing up at the right time and right place. If this is true for all these comps how many swai jaio teachers won medals by default and how many of these guys are teaching and using this competition record to draw in gullible students?

I have never studied swai jiao because it is not available but what I have seen on the internet makes my stomach curl.

Judo has organization just like tkd. Too bad the chinese are not as organized as the japanese and the koreans.

[lkfmdc]

I started a thread to take the issue of his books away from a thread about his passing...

You might note what I just wrote there...

We can then either continue there OR here... but no point in having a conversation divided into two threads

[TenTigers]

I started a thread to take the issue of his books away from a thread about his passing...

You might note what I just wrote there...

We can then either continue there OR here... but no point in having a conversation divided into two threads

good luck with that....

I think Smith was only shown what he was shown, and was prone to snap judgements.
This being said, I do feel judo spends more time on foot sweeps and unbalancing, which is a highly effective skill. That is not to say that SJ doesn't have this, only that in the beginning stages of Judo, alot of time is spent on this.

I have yet to hear from someone who is advanced in both arts. I would be interested in hearing an educated opinion on such things as the SJ fall vs the Judo fall, and others.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Having done both I can say here are strengths and weakness in both.
Judo is far better on the ground, obviously and SC is more complete with it's blending of strikes.

[SPJ]

judo is codified shuai jiao

gi or no gi.

there are many throwing techniques across all styles

including ba gua and tai ji.

--

shuai jiao since 6 year old.

judo since in high school.

there

[Mattador]

there are many throwing techniques across all styles

including ba gua and tai ji.

Just because the throwing techniques are the same does not mean the tai chi person has done them in the same frequency as the judo/swai guy. These guys should be claiming that they teach throwing but cannot claim to be teaching swai jiao which is supposed to be its own art.

If I teach hip toss to my son does that mean I am a swai jiao teacher? I cannot wait to put that on my website!

[Mattador]

good luck with that....


I have yet to hear from someone who is advanced in both arts. I would be interested in hearing an educated opinion on such things as the SJ fall vs the Judo fall, and others.

Who cares about an educated opinion. Which style of falling works better for you?

[Scott R. Brown]

Who cares about an educated opinion. Which style of falling works better for you?

The one where the other guy falls and I'm still standing!

[YouKnowWho]

Is this pretty much a dead horse by now?

I would be interested in hearing an educated opinion on such things as the SJ fall vs the Judo fall, and others.

SC fall has one simple purpose - protect your head.

[Grumblegeezer]

Smith tells a story about getting drunk in a Taiwan bar (it was a ***** house actually) and slipping and falling. He said he used the judo break fall method (slapping out) and "ONLY" broke his arm. He then states that "in HIS OPINION" he would have been worse off using the shuai jiao method of falling

Not only is the story ILLOGICAL - ie he used the Judo method and got injured, did not use the Shuai Jiao method - it strikes in context as nothing more than sour grapes

This quote by lkfmdc taken from another thread deals exactly with my previous question about the two methods of falling. I never really understood that whole Judo/Japanese Jujutsu ground-slapping thing... especially when you aren't on a mat. Can anyone clear this up for me?

BTW-- this description of the Swai Jiao approach by Youknowwho is pretty close to the way my old Chinese WT sifu told us to deal with a throw:

SC fall:

- Use one arm as pillow behind the head.
- Use another arm to protect your head from attacking from above.
- Turn your body sideway.
- Bend your legs.
- Try not to hit one knee on top anothe knee.
- Curve your body into a small ball.

[faxiapreta]

This quote by lkfmdc taken from another thread deals exactly with my previous question about the two methods of falling. I never really understood that whole Judo/Japanese Jujutsu ground-slapping thing... especially when you aren't on a mat. Can anyone clear this up for me?

Watch how wrestlers get taken down and how judo players get thrown. Those are the best ways to "fall", whether on mats or on soft surfaces.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This quote by lkfmdc taken from another thread deals exactly with my previous question about the two methods of falling. I never really understood that whole Judo/Japanese Jujutsu ground-slapping thing... especially when you aren't on a mat. Can anyone clear this up for me?

There are a few reasons for it:
The primary one is that it keeps you from falling on your back and getting pinned (lost match) the secondary one is about absorbing/redirecting the force of the fall.
That said, on the street you are taught to "hold" rather that to "take the fall" because of the conditions ( harder ground, obstructions, more than one attacker).

[faxiapreta]

There are a few reasons for it:
The primary one is that it keeps you from falling on your back and getting pinned (lost match) the secondary one is about absorbing/redirecting the force of the fall.

It has nothing to do with getting pinned (if anything, the arm slap, actually flattens you out on your back) and everything to do with force absorption. It should only used for practicing on mats.

That said, on the street you are taught to "hold" rather that to "take the fall" because of the conditions ( harder ground, obstructions, more than one attacker).

"Holding" is what is used in most competitions. That's why you usually see both competitors go to the ground.

[Lucas]

when i was learning aikido we did the same type of breakfall you see in judo. it does not flatten you onto your back at all. go try it.

[lkfmdc]

High level Judo people (Olympics, world cup) do not use the "slap method" just FYI