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Thread: Swaui jao no good. Judo so good.

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by kungfublow View Post
    So what exactly is your experience with Judo? I might have missed this but do you actually train in this art? Sanjuro has extensive experience and when the man says you don't want to be in that position I take his word for it. Maybe that's because I don't argue with people that have way more experience than I do.

    Maybe I"m insane though.

    Everything I've been taught in JJJ matches up to what Sanjuro has said. Keep on laying down those words of wisdom!
    Dude, just because I say I have a shodan in judo, doesn't mean I have it and even if I did, I can still be full of ****.
    We always have to look a our own experience and common sense too.
    Just saying.
    Yes I have a shodan and yes I competed and was pretty good in my time, but that doesn't mean that what worked for me will work for every one else or you or him.

    I just simply stated that there was, IMO, more than o ne reason for novices to "slap" breakfall, that's all.
    And I based that on my experience.
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  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Well, consider that in judo the match is over AFTER the throw ( ippon), it doesn't much matter what position is best unless it was a "incomplete" throw or a miss.
    Of course there would be no point if there was an ippon and the match was over, so obviously, we have to assume there was no ippon on those throws.

    What would be the better alternative in that case?
    Last edited by faxiapreta; 07-08-2011 at 02:11 PM.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfublow View Post
    So what exactly is your experience with Judo? I might have missed this but do you actually train in this art? Sanjuro has extensive experience and when the man says you don't want to be in that position I take his word for it. Maybe that's because I don't argue with people that have way more experience than I do.

    Maybe I"m insane though.

    Everything I've been taught in JJJ matches up to what Sanjuro has said. Keep on laying down those words of wisdom!
    My experience is irrelevant on a forum in which we are talking about issues for which there is evidence or lack thereof. For all you know, I could have twice the experience he does.

    So far, the evidence (using slap breakfalls to prevent pins in judo) is nowhere to be seen.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    If you believe that after an throw like an uchi mata that the turtle is where the thrown person WANTS to be in, well...
    Good luck with that.
    Turtle is better than giving up side control position or the arm lock.

    Watch this clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O93a4H5dEis

    Without the slap, the uke could have landed more on his side (which is exactly what you see in competitions) and, ideally, either brought the opponent over with him or gone to turtle.

    Slapping increases the chances of ippon.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Dude, just because I say I have a shodan in judo, doesn't mean I have it and even if I did, I can still be full of ****.
    We always have to look a our own experience and common sense too.
    Just saying.
    Yes I have a shodan and yes I competed and was pretty good in my time, but that doesn't mean that what worked for me will work for every one else or you or him.

    I just simply stated that there was, IMO, more than o ne reason for novices to "slap" breakfall, that's all.
    And I based that on my experience.
    That's fair! You can tell alot by the way a person talks. You could have never mentioned your past competitive experience and I would still agree with you. Just because you make a good arguement and it matches up to my understanding and experience with breakfalls.

    I look at it like this. If someone mentiones something that has worked for them. They have tested it and found the same results time and time again. Then why the heck not listen to this person? Sure test it yourself and maybe it won't work for you but it's a great place to start. Why not learn from others if it worked for them chances are it will work for you.

    Maybe I'm lazy but I tend to concentrate on the things that have worked for other people. Then I try to make them work for me. Always question sure but I tend to listen and learn when someone with experience is trying to bestow some wisdom.

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfublow View Post

    Maybe I'm lazy but I tend to concentrate on the things that have worked for other people. Then I try to make them work for me. Always question sure but I tend to listen and learn when someone with experience is trying to bestow some wisdom.
    If that's the case, all you have to do is look at the thousands of judo and or grappling competitions out there to see that the slap breakfall generally doesn't work the way he is explaining it.

    BTW, I have no problem with him being "right" and me being "wrong". I simple would like to see some evidence of the fact.

    Having "experience" doesn't mean much if there's no evidence. Anyone can claim experience. Has he shown evidence for his national Canadian Judo rankings? If not, it's simply a claim that anyone can make.
    Last edited by faxiapreta; 07-08-2011 at 02:35 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by faxiapreta View Post
    My experience is irrelevant on a forum in which we are talking about issues for which there is evidence or lack thereof. For all you know, I could have twice the experience he does.

    So far, the evidence (using slap breakfalls to prevent pins in judo) is nowhere to be seen.
    Experience is everything! I could talk theory about flying planes all day long. Doesn't mean I can fly a plane. Watching Youtube looking for evidence to support your theory is useless. Do it yourself and see what happens. Experience in this case and in most cases is the only true knowledge.

    I'll take talking to someone for 5 minutes with vast experience over 10,000 hours of youtube viewing. Youtube is not the place to check to see if a technique works.

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfublow View Post
    Experience is everything! I could talk theory about flying planes all day long. Doesn't mean I can fly a plane. Watching Youtube looking for evidence to support your theory is useless. Do it yourself and see what happens. Experience in this case and in most cases is the only true knowledge.

    I'll take talking to someone for 5 minutes with vast experience over 10,000 hours of youtube viewing. Youtube is not the place to check to see if a technique works.
    This is true. However, this is the internet anyone can make any claim he wants. Without evidence, it's just a claim.

    You are also right that experience is the best teacher. However, again, this is the internet. If you are going to have a logical discussion the only thing that counts is evidence and well-thought out points regarding the issues.

    And speaking of thinking out the issue points, please explain to me how extending ones arm out is going to assist in keeping one off his back.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by faxiapreta View Post
    If that's the case, all you have to do is look at the thousands of judo and or grappling competitions out there to see that the slap breakfall generally doesn't work the way he is explaining it.

    BTW, I have no problem with him being "right" and me being "wrong". I simple would like to see some evidence of the fact.

    Having "experience" doesn't mean much if there's no evidence. Anyone can claim experience. Has he shown evidence for his national Canadian Judo rankings? If not, it's simply a claim that anyone can make.
    There is a difference between having experience and claiming it. Those with it don't need evidence to support it. It stands out the second you touch hands with them. I've seen Sanjuro videos and heard him speak on here for the last couple of years. I don't need evidence to know the man knows what he talking about. It comes through in what he says. Youtube isn't evidence if you ask me. I've never learned anything from it. I learn from touching hands with people that have more experience than me. I don't ask them for a youtube clip after as evidence after. I just experienced it myself.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by faxiapreta View Post
    This is true. However, this is the internet anyone can make any claim he wants. Without evidence, it's just a claim.

    You are also right that experience is the best teacher. However, again, this is the internet. If you are going to have a logical discussion the only thing that counts is evidence and well-thought out points regarding the issues.

    And speaking of thinking out the issue points, please explain to me how extending ones arm out is going to assist in keeping one off his back.
    I don't know that it assists. But that's not the arguement. Your saying it makes you end up on your back. I"m saying that's not that case in my experience. Sorry I don't have a youtube clip! I land on my side and stay there even with the slap. That's me and maybe I'm different. It works for me and really that's all I care about.

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfublow View Post
    There is a difference between having experience and claiming it. Those with it don't need evidence to support it. It stands out the second you touch hands with them. I've seen Sanjuro videos and heard him speak on here for the last couple of years. I don't need evidence to know the man knows what he talking about. It comes through in what he says. Youtube isn't evidence if you ask me. I've never learned anything from it. I learn from touching hands with people that have more experience than me. I don't ask them for a youtube clip after as evidence after. I just experienced it myself.
    You've seen his videos? Judo videos? Really? Where are they?

    Oh, you haven't actually seen any judo videos of his?

    So, you are basing the fact that you think he is an "expert" on this by viewing what types of videos exactly?

    Oh, yeah, and the fact that he has said things on the forum such as using a slap breakfall helps one to stay off his back.

    So, let me see if I've got this straight. Thousand of competitive judo clips on YouTube don't count as evidence, but a couple of unrelated videos that someone has posted of himself on the forum DO count? Um... OK.

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfublow View Post
    I don't know that it assists. But that's not the arguement. Your saying it makes you end up on your back. I"m saying that's not that case in my experience. Sorry I don't have a youtube clip! I land on my side and stay there even with the slap. That's me and maybe I'm different. It works for me and really that's all I care about.
    What happens when you hold and, instead of slapping, roll, pulling your opponent with you?
    Last edited by faxiapreta; 07-08-2011 at 03:11 PM.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfublow View Post
    I don't know that it assists. But that's not the arguement. Your saying it makes you end up on your back.
    Lie on your back. Now try to roll to the side as you slap your arm out to the side next to you.

    Next, lie on your back again. This time try to roll onto your side as you curl your arm into you.

    Guess which one was easier and made it less likely you'd stay on your back?

    Same principle with throws.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by faxiapreta View Post
    Lie on your back. Now try to roll to the side as you slap your arm out to the side next to you.

    Next, lie on your back again. This time try to roll onto your side as you curl your arm into you.

    Guess which one was easier and made it less likely you'd stay on your back?

    Same principle with throws.
    so do you like the shuai jiao method of falling better?
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    WRONG, 81 nations sending 11 person teams does NOT = small by any stretch of (your) imagination
    Hmmm... 81 nations sending 11 person teams. Last time I checked Sanshou was not very big in most countries, which would mean this is the equivalent to countries like Brazil, and Saudi Arabia sending ski teams to the winter Olympics.

    Which would explain Tim Ferris winning the national championships with a few months of training under his belt.
    Last edited by faxiapreta; 07-08-2011 at 03:58 PM.

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