MMA / UFC: Your Thoughts?

[Minghequan]

Labelling MMA as a Martial Art is to me at leasta step too far. MMA has as much to do with martial arts as Tap Dancing does, and as long it continues to be propelled by commercialism it will never meet the standards required for it to be so.

I do, of course, realise that many of you reading this are perhaps involved in MMA in some way, and will take great issue with what is being said here. It's not the enjoyment and practicality factor of the training thats the issue here. It is not my purpose to create controversy for the sake of it, but there are very real principles at stake and these things must be said.

Encompassing many different fighting systems that date back hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of years, the Martial Arts have been an endless source of physical, mental and spiritual growth for a great many people from all walks of life.

So far removed from being some form of systemised, ego-driven, violent ability the Martial Arts can be one of the most peaceful and life-affirming activities a person can learn, apply and embody within. With devout and sincere practise, the Martial Arts can bring out the very best traits in us as humans: humility, inner strength, integrity the ability to look within. They should teach us respect for our fellow man. They represent a happiness within that allows us to connect on a much deeper level with the world around us.

Of course, people are free to do as they please with their lives and I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should and should not do. No this is something that must be experienced by each individual.

The point I'm trying to make is that if people were made aware of the essence of Martial Arts and the many deeper benefits that come along with same, then perhaps they would not be so blinded by the false glamour and dubious values that UFC and MMA are based upon.

It is a highly commercialised exhnibition of fighting and the pure aggreession of the human race that has taken advantage of people's ignorance and weak egos in the name of entertainment, ego-embroidery and financial power.

Many schools have lost people going to MMA clubs after watching cage fights on TV. I say that they were never real students in the first place but then that's only my opinion.

To my mind, the whole UFC trend reflects a lot of what is wrong with today's society - the hunger for fame and money, 15 seconds of fame, a name up in lights achieved over belting another individual for the bloodlust of a electrified crowd. It truly saddens me to see so many people be sucked in by it.

I see UFC / MMA as another trend that will eventually be replaced by the "next big thing", replaced by something on an even more base level. The call for blood in a rapidly degenerating society will deem more and more violence to satisfy the animal in us all. As we make so many advancements in our world we continue to take steps away from what we can truly be.

Traditional martial arts on the other hand, have existed for thousands of years and will continue to endure as long as people themselves do. Can we really say the same about MMA/UFC?

[bawang]

the next fad after ufc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7uIi...&feature=feedf

[Minghequan]

Lol! Where did you find that one?

[faxiapreta]

Labelling MMA as a Martial Art is to me at leasta step too far. MMA has as much to do with martial arts as Tap Dancing does, and as long it continues to be propelled by commercialism it will never meet the standards required for it to be so.

I do, of course, realise that many of you reading this are perhaps involved in MMA in some way, and will take great issue with what is being said here. It's not the enjoyment and practicality factor of the training thats the issue here. It is not my purpose to create controversy for the sake of it, but there are very real principles at stake and these things must be said.

Encompassing many different fighting systems that date back hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of years, the Martial Arts have been an endless source of physical, mental and spiritual growth for a great many people from all walks of life.

So far removed from being some form of systemised, ego-driven, violent ability the Martial Arts can be one of the most peaceful and life-affirming activities a person can learn, apply and embody within. With devout and sincere practise, the Martial Arts can bring out the very best traits in us as humans: humility, inner strength, integrity the ability to look within. They should teach us respect for our fellow man. They represent a happiness within that allows us to connect on a much deeper level with the world around us.

Of course, people are free to do as they please with their lives and I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should and should not do. No this is something that must be experienced by each individual.

The point I'm trying to make is that if people were made aware of the essence of Martial Arts and the many deeper benefits that come along with same, then perhaps they would not be so blinded by the false glamour and dubious values that UFC and MMA are based upon.

It is a highly commercialised exhnibition of fighting and the pure aggreession of the human race that has taken advantage of people's ignorance and weak egos in the name of entertainment, ego-embroidery and financial power.

Many schools have lost people going to MMA clubs after watching cage fights on TV. I say that they were never real students in the first place but then that's only my opinion.

To my mind, the whole UFC trend reflects a lot of what is wrong with today's society - the hunger for fame and money, 15 seconds of fame, a name up in lights achieved over belting another individual for the bloodlust of a electrified crowd. It truly saddens me to see so many people be sucked in by it.

I see UFC / MMA as another trend that will eventually be replaced by the "next big thing", replaced by something on an even more base level. The call for blood in a rapidly degenerating society will deem more and more violence to satisfy the animal in us all. As we make so many advancements in our world we continue to take steps away from what we can truly be.

Traditional martial arts on the other hand, have existed for thousands of years and will continue to endure as long as people themselves do. Can we really say the same about MMA/UFC?

Mixed martial arts has existed as long as martial arts have existed. The best fighters have always cross trained and integrated what works best into their repertoire.

[Minghequan]

Faxiapreta,

So I take it you are an MMA/UFC advocate? Do you do Chinese martial arts in any form?

[faxiapreta]

Faxiapreta,

So I take it you are an MMA/UFC advocate? Do you do Chinese martial arts in any form?

What I do is not the issue. The issue is whether MMA is a martial art.

To tell you the truth, your are right. It shouldn't be called MMA. That is simply a marketing term. It's not really an art. An art is more along the lines of dance performance or artistic expression. MMA is about what works against resisting, trained opponents.

If one were to label it in a more realistic manner, it probably should be more along the lines of Unarmed, Close-Quarter, Mixed Combative Techniques.

That doesn't work so well as a name in a marketing sense, however.

NHB used to be the proper term for it before all the rules were added.

[doug maverick]

yes the best fighter cross train, i totally agree. i would probably call it mms mix martial sport, for the whole cage fighting because its more of a sport then an art. but cross training is a key element in the development of martial arts and martial artist. most modern styles are mictures of other styles, choy li fut, hung ga, bagua etc. to say that mma is a "fad" shows some very narrow mindedness considering its been around forever.

[YiQuanOne]

Mixed martial arts has existed as long as martial arts have existed. The best fighters have always cross trained and integrated what works best into their repertoire.

I would say it is more like an incomplete system with no essence. More like a homeless person with no home, roaming around looking for a place to sleep.

It is just a lot of external techniques based on speed and power stolen from one place or another, that is why it is all weight division, skill is a very small part.
The skill level is limited with that type of training. You will never be able to beat a person bigger than you fighting MMA. You will just get older and your performance will just diminish.
You will rarely see some one use the power of the other guy against the other guy. But I do see it in the ground fighting more and more.

What happens is these guys learn something and they want to do it right away.
Instead of training to get the internal core that is needed to apply most MA's, they substitue the internal core with the external core of muscle. Which is limited by muscle. (size)(weight)
If they had the internal core they would not need the external, but they are in a hurry to use this stuff they think is MA's, so they run out and try to force things, like trying to fit the square peg in the round hole by forcing it. That is why size is so important.

Anyway nice thread start, but this ***apedia guy is an idiot, just ignore him. He is clueless in what he says. Just a troll trying to cause trouble because he doesn't understand.

So if you are impatient and want to apply an art before you have it, train the external, if works right away, boxing, wing chun, wrestling these will give good results in short period of time.

I would look at MMA as a house with no foundation , it will only be able to support a small house.

Plus the premise does not apply to real life. MA' should make you a better person, not an egotistic person that thinks he has to beat up everything in front of him, you should rise to a higher level and persuade a person to quit without injuring them, then you have achieved something, injuring a person doesn't take much skill.

Anyway nice thread start, but this ***apedia guy is an idiot, just ignore him. He is clueless in what he says. Just a troll trying to cause trouble because he doesn't understand much.



.

[faxiapreta]

I would say it is more like an incomplete system with no essence. More like a homeless person with no home, roaming around looking for a place to sleep.

It is just a lot of external techniques based on speed and power stolen from one place or another, that is why it is all weight division, skill is a very small part.
The skill level is limited with that type of training. You will never be able to beat a person bigger than you fighting MMA. You will just get older and your performance will just diminish.
You will rarely see some one use the power of the other guy against the other guy. But I do see it in the ground fighting more and more.

What happens is these guys learn something and they want to do it right away.
Instead of training to get the internal core that is needed to apply most MA's, they substitue the internal core with the external core of muscle. Which is limited by muscle. (size)(weight)
If they had the internal core they would not need the external, but they are in a hurry to use this stuff they think is MA's, so they run out and try to force things, like trying to fit the square peg in the round hole by forcing it. That is why size is so important.

Anyway nice thread start, but this ***apedia guy is an idiot, just ignore him. He is clueless in what he says. Just a troll trying to cause trouble because he doesn't understand.

So if you are impatient and want to apply an art before you have it, train the external, if works right away, boxing, wing chun, wrestling these will give good results in short period of time.

I would look at MMA as a house with no foundation , it will only be able to support a small house.

Plus the premise does not apply to real life. MA' should make you a better person, not an egotistic person that thinks he has to beat up everything in front of him, you should rise to a higher level and persuade a person to quit without injuring them, then you have achieved something, injuring a person doesn't take much skill.

Anyway nice thread start, but this ***apedia guy is an idiot, just ignore him. He is clueless in what he says. Just a troll trying to cause trouble because he doesn't understand much.



.

Of course that does beg the question, why is there no evidence in the history of the world of an "internal" practitioner fighting with his "internal" skills?

[YouKnowWho]

a house with no foundation ...

After you have

- put up your wall and roof, it may be impossible to go back to enhance the foundation for your house.
- dveloped your combat skill, you will have the rest of your life to go back to enhance your "foundation".

If you compete your tournaments from your 20 to your 36 (Muhammad Ali retired at age of 36), you will have your golden 16 years to develop your combat skill and combat experience. After you no longer compete at your age 36, you will have another 60 years (assume you will live to your 96) to enhance your TCMA "foundation".

Our life is so funny. When we were young, our punch may not be strong enough to knock down our opponents. When we are older, our punch may be strong enough to knock down our opponents, since we don't compete any more, we can only punch on our heavy bags for the rest of our life.

[YiQuanOne]

Of course that does beg the question, why is there no evidence in the history of the world of an "internal" practitioner fighting with his "internal" skills?

Just read about Yang lu chan, or the famous Wang who challenged everybody and both never lost, both "internal". And Yang never had to hurt any of his challengers to defeat them, maybe Wang too.

I guess they never had video cameras back then.

The reason that you see very very few now a days, if any, is because MA's is being diluted by idiots that learn a little and think they can open their own school and teach a MA that they suck at, because they are greedy and want to make money, they are everywhere. I think most of them don't even know they are missing most of the Art, they just know a useless external form, and try to sell that as the whole Art.

I have worked out and taught one Master who was exported from China with a special status of some kind of MA Wu-shu talent. He did not have a clue of internal core at all, 30 years of learning, never had learned it. And he was called a Master, I touched his teachers hands, not their either.

Its is being lost by all these greedy people trying to make a buck.

Its not gone, but rare, all these idiots that are teaching Tai Chi, are mostly clue less, could not fight there way out of a paper bag. A lot of phony people out there exploiting the MA 's name just to make a buck.

I guess probably the same as any other field.

In China you can challenge these phonies to expose them, but not in this country, you will be sued.

[Minghequan]

Faxiapreta,

What I do is not the issue. The issue is whether MMA is a martial art.

To tell you the truth, your are right. It shouldn't be called MMA. That is simply a marketing term. It's not really an art. An art is more along the lines of dance performance or artistic expression. MMA is about what works against resisting, trained opponents.

If one were to label it in a more realistic manner, it probably should be more along the lines of Unarmed, Close-Quarter, Mixed Combative Techniques.

That doesn't work so well as a name in a marketing sense, however.

NHB used to be the proper term for it before all the rules were added.

What you do influences your approach and viewpoint so it is relevant.

The "issue" as you state it is whether MMA is a martial art.

MMA/UFC is rule based as a sportive competition designed to boost it's competitors via the medium of shows and television etc as viable marketing tools for the organisation they compete within.

It is chained by marketing and media concerns, driven all too often by ego and bloodlust .... now does this sound like a defination of the martial arts?

MMA is about what works against resisting, trained opponents.

Uhmmm no. MMA is about marketing, media, bloodlust, ego driven pursuits and rewards for its competitors in the terms of recognition, trophies and financial gain. It is also restricted by its own rules. If it has rules and or is rule based and indentified ... how can it be about what "works against resisting, trained opponents?"

Of course that does beg the question, why is there no evidence in the history of the world of an "internal" practitioner fighting with his "internal" skills?

Why does it have to be about an "internal" practitioner? There are plenty of occasions where so-called soft, internal stylists have been called upon to defend themselves, loved ones etc. just because it is not in a cage or ring does not mean that it did not happen nor is justified. To sum it all up, mate if I and the art I pursue were no good or a then I would not have lasted 4 minutes little alone 40 years in the Martial Arts. Secondly, I have dealt with all types of attack in my work in security from the verbal to the physical, pushing, grappling, straight out fighting, restraining and removing, de-escalation, broken bottled and glasses in my direction, screwdrivers, people high on ice (the psychostimulant drug, methamphetamine) hell even a gun being shot at the Club I work at! If I and the art I do was no good I would not still be doing it 20 years or so down the track. Man I get it that White Crane is not considered "cool" or the in-thing in martial arts but what I teach is highly personal and practical from a Life protection perspective.

What evidence is there of MMA/UFC fighting in the real world for real world reasons i.e. life protection?

You see i am not talking about a competive sport but an art that has survived centuries in the real world of life protection.

YiQuanOne,

I would say it is more like an incomplete system with no essence. More like a homeless person with no home, roaming around looking for a place to sleep.

Thank you.

Plus the premise does not apply to real life. MA' should make you a better person, not an egotistic person that thinks he has to beat up everything in front of him, you should rise to a higher level and persuade a person to quit without injuring them, then you have achieved something, injuring a person doesn't take much skill.

Yes.

Also what happens when your in your forties or mid fifities? Will you stiill be grounding and pounding in the ring little enough in the school/gym? Will you be "out there" on the street attempting to be a Bad-Ass or applying your MMA/UFC "against resisting, trained opponents". What do you do when the result of a lifetime of externalities catches up with you?

[Frost]

Labelling MMA as a Martial Art is to me at leasta step too far. MMA has as much to do with martial arts as Tap Dancing does, and as long it continues to be propelled by commercialism it will never meet the standards required for it to be so.

I do, of course, realise that many of you reading this are perhaps involved in MMA in some way, and will take great issue with what is being said here. It's not the enjoyment and practicality factor of the training thats the issue here. It is not my purpose to create controversy for the sake of it, but there are very real principles at stake and these things must be said.

Encompassing many different fighting systems that date back hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of years, the Martial Arts have been an endless source of physical, mental and spiritual growth for a great many people from all walks of life.

So far removed from being some form of systemised, ego-driven, violent ability the Martial Arts can be one of the most peaceful and life-affirming activities a person can learn, apply and embody within. With devout and sincere practise, the Martial Arts can bring out the very best traits in us as humans: humility, inner strength, integrity the ability to look within. They should teach us respect for our fellow man. They represent a happiness within that allows us to connect on a much deeper level with the world around us.

Of course, people are free to do as they please with their lives and I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should and should not do. No this is something that must be experienced by each individual.

The point I'm trying to make is that if people were made aware of the essence of Martial Arts and the many deeper benefits that come along with same, then perhaps they would not be so blinded by the false glamour and dubious values that UFC and MMA are based upon.

It is a highly commercialised exhnibition of fighting and the pure aggreession of the human race that has taken advantage of people's ignorance and weak egos in the name of entertainment, ego-embroidery and financial power.

Many schools have lost people going to MMA clubs after watching cage fights on TV. I say that they were never real students in the first place but then that's only my opinion.

To my mind, the whole UFC trend reflects a lot of what is wrong with today's society - the hunger for fame and money, 15 seconds of fame, a name up in lights achieved over belting another individual for the bloodlust of a electrified crowd. It truly saddens me to see so many people be sucked in by it.

I see UFC / MMA as another trend that will eventually be replaced by the "next big thing", replaced by something on an even more base level. The call for blood in a rapidly degenerating society will deem more and more violence to satisfy the animal in us all. As we make so many advancements in our world we continue to take steps away from what we can truly be.

Traditional martial arts on the other hand, have existed for thousands of years and will continue to endure as long as people themselves do. Can we really say the same about MMA/UFC?

MMA has been around in in its current form since the gracies started to take challengers on about a century ago so i dont think its going anywhere no matter what some hippies wish

lol do you do yoga or a martial art, peaceful and life afirming, breeding integreity and inner peace, how many new age books have you read?

martial arts were developed to help you kill your opponent and survive hostile places, thats it, what ever you personally want to make of them these days thats what they were developed for hence the name,

ill tell you what does breed intengrity and is life afirming, have the bottle to actually face an opponent in competition and test what you have been taught, wilingness to lose in public is hardly ego driven...now hiding behind a closed classroom door and passing judgement on those that will do this when your yourself wont, that is to me driven by both ego and fear

[Minghequan]

Interesting points of views. Thank you for your input.

MMA has been around in in its current form since the gracies started to take challengers on about a century ago so i dont think its going anywhere no matter what some hippies wish

Hmmm well I'd hardly call myself a Hippy (Whatever that is supposed to be or mean).

lol do you do yoga or a martial art, peaceful and life afirming, breeding integreity and inner peace, how many new age books have you read?

Lol! What gives you that idea? Nope I don't do Yoga. I am qualified in energy healing and Shiatsu Massage but I'm not really into the whole "new age" (which is in reality really "old age") thing or scene. Besides what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? (i.e. the discussion). I hold Accreditation (as required by and recognised by the Australian Government) with the Martial Arts Industry Association and the International Martial Arts Alliance, one of the peak industry bodies here in Australia and holds a Certificate II in Sports Coaching (Martial Arts) with HBA Consulting, accredited by the State Training Authority (Training and Employment Recognition Council) and authorised to deliver Nationally Recognised Qualifications in all states and territories of Australia, an Internationally Accredited Martial Arts Instructor certified by RABQSA (under International Standard ISO 17024. I am currently Accredited with the International Martial Arts Alliance and their scheme through the provider TS-100 so I have a bit more of a practical science based approach to teaching than just a few "new age" books!

martial arts were developed to help you kill your opponent and survive hostile places, thats it, what ever you personally want to make of them these days thats what they were developed for hence the name,

Vaild point. So what does this description have to do with the mainly sport or competitive based MMA/UFC Scene. How many people have you killed recently in the name of "Martial Arts?" Of course that's silly. Yes the arts were designed to defend oneself and in life protection sometimes kill but that does not mean we all hall ass off and start chopping down people like swatting flies now does it!

ill tell you what does breed intengrity and is life afirming, have the bottle to actually face an opponent in competition and test what you have been taught, wilingness to lose in public is hardly ego driven...now hiding behind a closed classroom door and passing judgement on those that will do this when your yourself wont, that is to me driven by both ego and fear

Buddy did you read my posts? Let me refresh your memory a little:

To sum it all up, mate if I and the art I pursue were no good or a then I would not have lasted 4 minutes little alone 40 years in the Martial Arts. Secondly, I have dealt with all types of attack in my work in security from the verbal to the physical, pushing, grappling, straight out fighting, restraining and removing, de-escalation, broken bottled and glasses in my direction, screwdrivers, people high on ice (the psychostimulant drug, methamphetamine) hell even a gun being shot at the Club I work at! If I and the art I do was no good I would not still be doing it 20 years or so down the track. Man I get it that White Crane is not considered "cool" or the in-thing in martial arts but what I teach is highly personal and practical from a Life protection perspective.

My employment is in the Security Industry. I've been doing nothing but this work for over the past 20 years and I'm still good looking (no visible scars). I have worked as a Doorman, a Bouncer/Crowd Controller and Bodyguard. Mate I'm the holder of a NSW Australian Government Recognised Security Industry Licence and have been involved in Security for the past 20 years doing all forms of security including Doorman, a Bouncer/Crowd Controller, Bodyguard and delivering Anti-Drug Lectures and bodyguarding for Australian Rock Star Angry Anderson of Rose Tattoo, John Tarrant Actor from "A Country Practice" and others, I have worked the Door, Crowd Control and Personal Security and currently employed by the Wellington Soldiers Memorial Club and Bluestar Security. I think I have just an ever so small modest amount of knowledge and experience of how the real world operates.

ill tell you what does breed intengrity and is life afirming, have the bottle to actually face an opponent in competition

With all due respect ... rubbish! Competition is not life protection, not even close. In competition you have rules, protective gear and a referee. Timed matches with rest breaks .. that just does not happen on the street. Losing in competition may cause you to lose some personal face or even having your pride and ego bruised .. that much is true but losing "out there" against the 2 or 4 jacked up on methamphetamine guys armed with blades, broken bottles or glasses, a screwdriver or a syringe could mean losing more than some ego and pride, it could mean losing your life. Lets put it in to it's proper perspective before making sweeping statements and judgements.

Lastly, Peace Out Brother (Hippy enough for ya!) lol!

[faxiapreta]

MMA/UFC is rule based as a sportive competition designed to boost it's competitors via the medium of shows and television etc as viable marketing tools for the organisation they compete within.

It is chained by marketing and media concerns, driven all too often by ego and bloodlust .... now does this sound like a defination of the martial arts?

I explained that it should have a different name. NHB was the best name before the rules were added.

Uhmmm no. MMA is about marketing, media, bloodlust, ego driven pursuits and rewards for its competitors in the terms of recognition, trophies and financial gain. It is also restricted by its own rules. If it has rules and or is rule based and indentified ... how can it be about what "works against resisting, trained opponents?"

If you can't fight within a ruleset, you sure won't do much without one.

Why does it have to be about an "internal" practitioner? There are plenty of occasions where so-called soft, internal stylists have been called upon to defend themselves, loved ones etc. just because it is not in a cage or ring does not mean that it did not happen nor is justified.

Doesn't give it any credence. Anyone can post a bunch of words saying what he has supposedly done. Supplying evidence shows that person is not simply making things up out of his @ss.

To sum it all up, mate if I and the art I pursue were no good or a then I would not have lasted 4 minutes little alone 40 years in the Martial Arts.

Sure you would have. There are thousands of people who have done just that.

Secondly, I have dealt with all types of attack in my work in security from the verbal to the physical, pushing, grappling, straight out fighting, restraining and removing, de-escalation, broken bottled and glasses in my direction, screwdrivers, people high on ice (the psychostimulant drug, methamphetamine) hell even a gun being shot at the Club I work at! If I and the art I do was no good I would not still be doing it 20 years or so down the track. Man I get it that White Crane is not considered "cool" or the in-thing in martial arts but what I teach is highly personal and practical from a Life protection perspective.

Plenty of people with zero training work in the "security industry". Just because you have "dealt" with attacks doesn't mean your training had anything to do with it.

What evidence is there of MMA/UFC fighting in the real world for real world reasons i.e. life protection?

There is over 150 years of evidence of people training in the "sportive" method soundly defeating people who train in the "non-sportive" method. There is zero evidence of the latter.

You see i am not talking about a competive sport but an art that has survived centuries in the real world of life protection.

It has survived despite its unrealistic methods.

Also what happens when your in your forties or mid fifities? Will you stiill be grounding and pounding in the ring little enough in the school/gym? Will you be "out there" on the street attempting to be a Bad-Ass or applying your MMA/UFC "against resisting, trained opponents". What do you do when the result of a lifetime of externalities catches up with you?

The old guy with the sporting full-contact experience will always be better than the old guy without that experience when he was younger.