Not everyone is a cage fighter.... so what?

[lkfmdc]

well karl tanswell survived a gang knife attack (read over 6 people stabbing and attacking him and the hunting him down when he escaped to do it again) and now teaches the STAB knife defence programme based on greco roman wrestling, hes pretty much an authority on the area to (and has the scares to prove it)

STAB
Red Zone
Die Less Often

[HumbleWCGuy]

well karl tanswell survived a gang knife attack (read over 6 people stabbing and attacking him and the hunting him down when he escaped to do it again) and now teaches the STAB knife defence programme based on greco roman wrestling, hes pretty much an authority on the area to (and has the scares to prove it)
is empty hand the best way to go against a knife, of course not but controlling the limbs and his body is a good idea (hey look its grappling)

I think that the ground work is a piece of it, but one guy getting **** near stabbed to death using Greco to stop a knife attack isn't much of an endorsement for taking it to the ground as a first option.

[HumbleWCGuy]

That's the thing about "thinking" as opposed to knowing...

Ever seen "die less often"?

Ground work can be a piece of it, but it isn't the first option. Just like in anything, the ground work makes your game complete, but isn't always the first option.

A lot of those guys were ending up on the ground because they were making small mistakes in the upright. Also if I recall, not too many of those guys were coming out well when it went to the ground. What I got out of it was to learn to disarm a knife from the ground, but if you make it your best option, you are in trouble.

[lkfmdc]

I think that the ground work is a piece of it, but one guy getting **** near stabbed to death using Greco to stop a knife attack isn't much of an endorsement for taking it to the ground as a first option.

Ground work can be a piece of it, but it isn't the first option. Just like in anything, the ground work makes your game complete, but isn't always the first option.

wrestling does not equal ground

please, go and look up some info before you continue, your posts are meaningless because you are arguing with NO BASE in what we are talking about

[faxiapreta]

Ground work can be a piece of it, but it isn't the first option. Just like in anything, the ground work makes your game complete, but isn't always the first option.

A lot of those guys were ending up on the ground because they were making small mistakes in the upright. Also if I recall, not to many of those guys were coming out well when it went to the ground. What I got out of it was to learn to disarm a knife from the ground, but if you make it your best option, you are in trouble.

What do think the best option is?

[HumbleWCGuy]

wrestling does not equal ground

It's what you were implying

please, go and look up some info before you continue, your posts are meaningless because you are arguing with NO BASE in what we are talking about

Your arrogance and inability to admit when you are wrong really gets annoying.

[HumbleWCGuy]

What do think the best option is?

In order,
1. Run
2. Gun
3. Any weapon longer than a knife
4. Knife
5. Random weapon such as a rock, ashtray, glass, etc.
6. Various standing defense then run and or secure a weapon
7. Standing disarm
8. Ground disarm

[sanjuro_ronin]

Super impressive list. I'd like to learn more knife material. My master used to tell me pole fighting bet on the old man. Not to bet on knife fighting, that it's too unpredictable.... I can understand that. Up close with a sharp blade. Scary. I really don't have much experience with that.

On an aside, some Sambo guys come roll with us from time to time. One thing I like about them is they go for leg locks more than BJJ which I like, though admittedly risky to opening oneself up to counter leg locks.... but that kind of goes with this subject. Better to find that out in training. For example, I love to step backwards over halfguard for the knee bar... but only against guys I know don't have a leg lock game.

Thanks Ray, I was a late comer to the MMA thing, in my day if you want to test thinsg you found the venue to test them and, in many ways, I feel THAT mode is perhaps better than stricly MMA as it is now.

[sanjuro_ronin]

STAB
Red Zone
Die Less Often

All centered on wrestling and grappling ( clinch work) coupled with "something else".
All top notch and I, personally, have used their methods to good effect.

[lkfmdc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THW-c6E5nvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_ZO17yWi7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvF_iDurNEk

just a few examples of what is going on in the real world

[faxiapreta]

In order,
1. Run
2. Gun
3. Any weapon longer than a knife
4. Knife
5. Random weapon such as a rock, ashtray, glass, etc.
6. Various standing defense then run and or secure a weapon
7. Standing disarm
8. Ground disarm

I agree, and most of the guys who train in knife disarms will also agree. What the Red Zone guys, et al are training is for the part where 1-6 are no longer options.

Since you are disparaging the Greco-Roman approach to #7, what do you think would be better?

[HumbleWCGuy]

All centered on wrestling and grappling ( clinch work) coupled with "something else".
All top notch and I, personally, have used their methods to good effect.

The something else that the Dog Brothers appear to be using is Wing Chun/TCMA. Although, I suppose that those techniques could be considered part of their Filipino training as well.

[lkfmdc]

It's what you were implying

please quote where I said anything about "ground"

you can't because I didn't

Your arrogance and inability to admit when you are wrong really gets annoying.

irony, it's not just for breakfast anymore

[lkfmdc]

The current state of the art thinking on knife / blade defense is that you will have to wrestle to survive. The top programs / methods are all grappling / wrestling based. Considering how poor most TMA people's grappling and wrestling is, it is pretty funny to hear them run to the blade as their answer to the MMA approach

truth is a bitch

Please point out the part in the above that is about "ground"

Your arrogance and inability to admit when you are wrong really gets annoying.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The something else that the Dog Brothers appear to be using is Wing Chun/TCMA. Although, I suppose that those techniques could be considered part of their Filipino training as well.

It's Kali and JKD from Insanto.
The basic core method used my the DBMA and the Carl ( Stab) and the REDZONE guys is "catch and control" from a position that neutralizes the armed opponents "free hand".
The strikes come after.
It is by far the most effective way to deal with the typical "machine gun" or "sewing machine" attacks that one will face from a motivated armed assailant.