Not everyone is a cage fighter.... so what?

[lkfmdc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXiSiX1tgg&NR=1

[faxiapreta]

It's Kali and JKD from Insanto.
The basic core method used my the DBMA and the Carl ( Stab) and the REDZONE guys is "catch and control" from a position that neutralizes the armed opponents "free hand".
The strikes come after.
It is by far the most effective way to deal with the typical "machine gun" or "sewing machine" attacks that one will face from a motivated armed assailant.

1. How do they address the opponent switching the weapon from one hand to the other once they have control?
   
2. How do they address an opponent with two blades?

[HumbleWCGuy]

I agree, and most of the guys who train in knife disarms will also agree. What the Red Zone guys, et al are training is for the part where 1-6 are no longer options.

Since you are disparaging the Greco-Roman approach to #7, what do you think would be better?

I am not disparaging the Greco-Approach as much as I think that some of the posters are trying to make it the first option. I think that all that stuff is great when put into the correct order/context. Also, I think that some of the earlier posters were intially equating Greco to ground.

Now as far as he standing Greco goes, It shares a lot of similarities with how I was trained to defend against a knife attack in WC. My traditional training would recommend trying to catch the wrist or use a belt or rope. Another option that I learned from the traditional methods would be to wrap your arm with a shirt to protect it.

Now the thing that I took from the Die Less often that I like a lot is to simply do what I would normally do, but apply pressure to the opponents arm and pass their arm into their body to prevent repeated strikes. They also teach to use the head to give added control to your pressure. I think that adds a higher level of effectiveness to the defense.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXiSiX1tgg&NR=1

I remember the firts time I saw this and though, that'll never work.
They I had it done on me and, more importantly, did it on others, some that were well experienced Kali guys.
It works.
Sure you need to blend it in with what you do, but it is pretty easy to do that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

1. How do they address the opponent switching the weapon from one hand to the other once they have control?
   
2. How do they address an opponent with two blades?

Are you asking me or making a point?

[lkfmdc]

I think that some of the earlier posters were intially equating Greco to ground.

the only person who did that was YOU

[HumbleWCGuy]

It's Kali and JKD from Insanto.
The basic core method used my the DBMA and the Carl ( Stab) and the REDZONE guys is "catch and control" from a position that neutralizes the armed opponents "free hand".
The strikes come after.
It is by far the most effective way to deal with the typical "machine gun" or "sewing machine" attacks that one will face from a motivated armed assailant.

JKD is built upon WC primarily so there isn't always a distinction to be made.

[faxiapreta]

I remember the firts time I saw this and though, that'll never work.
They I had it done on me and, more importantly, did it on others, some that were well experienced Kali guys.
It works.
Sure you need to blend it in with what you do, but it is pretty easy to do that.

I'm not seeing anywhere in that clip where they are catching the arm from a full force sewing machine attack with a resisting opponent. I'm also not seeing any of the opponents going for the switch hand.

How did they catch your arm with the 2 on 1 when you came in with the full-force sewing machine attack?

Also, what happened when you went for the hand switch?

[faxiapreta]

Are you asking me or making a point?

I'm asking that, because when I watch their clips, those seem to be the two glaring things they are missing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm not seeing anywhere in that clip where they are catching the arm from a full force sewing machine attack with a resisting opponent? I'm also not seeing any of the opponents going for the switch hand.

How did they catch you arm with the 2 on 1 when you came in with the full-force sewing machine attack?

Also, what happened when you went for the hand switch?

Well, things like the "dog catcher" and such are "trademarked" so I don't like giving out stuff that I didn't come up with.
But If you can get your hands on the DVD's of the DBMA " Die less Often" ( there are 3 volumes now I think.
Or STAB or RedZOne, they address those issues there.

[faxiapreta]

I saw the hand switch once in the clip and the defender lost control of the weapon hand while continuing to maintain control of the now free hand and he would have eaten the knife in that instance if the guy hadn't stopped.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I saw the hand switch once in the clip and the defender lost control of the weapon hand while continuing to maintain control of the now free hand and he would have eaten the knife in that instance if the guy hadn't stopped.

Wouldn't surprise me, **** liek that happens all the time in training and the real world.
Less than ideal situations and such.
The thing that you will not find in any of those programs is anyone advocating that going unarmed VS a knife is a good thing BUT that using these methods gives you a better chance to survive.

The hand switch that Karl uses, I am not a big fan.
Even the initial grab I am not a big fan, the DBMA's "dog catcher" is better IMO and leaves "more" room for error.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I'm asking that, because when I watch their clips, those seem to be the two glaring things they are missing.

In the stab video, I thought that the biggest problem with what they were doing was that they weren't putting any weight on the arm that they secured which was allowing the knife weilder to continue to strike and switch hands. They also didn't focus on disarming the knife.

The STAB training is better than nothing, but it need tightened up. It could stand to be infused with some TMA disarms or something. The grab and whip A$$ approach may not be the best. Th

[MightyB]

We should shut down the forum, burn down the temple, and hunt down and kill all TCMA masters because kung fu is dumb. All hail the great grandmasters of nutriding!!! Let us all be their fan boy minions!

[faxiapreta]

In the stab video, I thought that the biggest problem with what they were doing was that they weren't putting any weight on the arm that they secured which was allowing the knife weilder to continue to strike and switch hands. They also didn't focus on disarming the knife.

The STAB training is better than nothing, but it need tightened up. It could stand to be infused with some TMA disarms or something. The grab and whip A$$ approach may not be the best. Th

Yes, they were putting weight on the arm. The reason they weren't going for the weapon disarm is because it is too hard to do that and control the arm at the same time. Going for the weapon would simply free the opponent up for even more counters.

TMA disarms? Please explain how those would work.