Not everyone is a cage fighter.... so what?

[HumbleWCGuy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXiSiX1tgg&NR=1

I think that the whole thing about thinking versus knowing is why you are overly enamored with this crap. It has some nice stuff in it, but it is missing some pieces.

[lkfmdc]

I think that the whole thing about thinking versus knowing is why you are overly enamored with this crap. It has some nice stuff in it, but it is missing some pieces.

it has worked, in real life, as opposed to what you are suggesting - vague "TMA disarms" that you can't even demonstrate

and your inability to admit you are wrong is annoying

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes, they were putting weight on the arm. The reason they weren't going for the weapon disarm is because it is too hard to do that and control the arm at the same time. Going for the weapon would simply free the opponent up for even more counters.

TMA disarms? Please explain how those would work.

Correct, the disarm would come WHEN and IF the attacker was incapacitated or on the ground and pinned so that his counters would be severly limited.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Yes, they were putting weight on the arm. The reason they weren't going for the weapon disarm is because it is too hard to do that and control the arm at the same time. Going for the weapon would simply free the opponent up for even more counters.

TMA disarms? Please explain how those would work.

I would have probably wanted to to put more weight at their shoulder if that makes sense. I think that they could have gone for a disarm if they used a different grip. I liked what they were doing as an initial grip but they could have adjusted for better control; I think. The were putting weight on the arm but it was more by pulling and using the head. I would have liked to seen more body weight from the mid section bearing down.

TMA disarms are mostly based on either wrist or finger locks or breaking the grip using the leverage of the knife. Also, if you can manipulate the opponent's arm back into himself, he may let go to avoid stabbing himself.

What would you suggest.

[lkfmdc]

TMA disarms are mostly based on either wrist or finger locks or breaking the grip using the leverage of the knife.

good luck with that

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bringing the knife back towards the attacker, unless it ends with stabbing him, would only increase the chances of him gaining control of the knife.

[faxiapreta]

Even the initial grab I am not a big fan, the DBMA's "dog catcher" is better IMO and leaves "more" room for error.

When you have trained the dog catcher full contact against various people with various approaches such as the sewing machine or double blades, what would you say the approximate percentage of time you are able to come out on top and that you would not have been "killed"?

[HumbleWCGuy]

good luck with that

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean that it can't be done. I suppose if I had a SN like HumbleBJJguy and I said wrist lock then you would believe that it is the best alternative.

I find it funny that you see nothing wrong with securing an arm with a it improperly while a guy with a knife plows you in the face until you are forced to let go and then get stabbed repeatedly.

[JamesC]

This guy is training to be a cage fighter

[sanjuro_ronin]

When you have trained the dog catcher full contact against various people with various approaches such as the sewing machine or double blades, what would you say the approximate percentage of time you are able to come out on top and that you would not have been "killed"?

I got killed the first few times, but then again, every "disarm" I had go me killed, LOL !!

After more drilling and more training it was like night and day.
BUT I recall the first time I used it.
The guy had a bottle and I just instinctively did it and it worked great.
You do need to realize that NONE of them say that you won't get cut or stabbed, that is just unrealistic.
Heck we cut ourselves accidently with knives, the chances of fighting someone with INTENT to cut us and NOT getting cut are minimal.
If you have a choice, run.
If you have no other choice then it gives you better odds.
IF you are truly interested, at least get vol 1 of Die less Often.

[Ray Pina]

Oh no.... is it generally agreed that one will need to know how to secure and control their opponent (to prevent being stabbed) before they can strike/finish? Except for the occasional 1 shot KO, the same applies for unarmed combat. Taking it even further, when the other is skilled you have to control them even longer to fatigue them/force an error before you can finish.

Then the question comes down to: how much time do you spend per week to address this?

This was my original point. This is not an MMA vs XXXX style thread. Every style is essentially a mixed martial art to some extent.... when your a$$ is on the line, you're open to useful information. Our ancestors practiced this. Those who really want to progress in their training practice this today as well.

This is why its important to train multiple (mixed) areas of combat: striking, grips, breaking grips, clinch, take downs, take down defenses, ground game, escapes, finishes. They come up in all areas of combat.

You know you are addressing these issues if you find yourself training just throws... that focuses on grips, balance, defense, take down etc.

You know you are addressing this if you find yourself training just ground game ... this trains positions, transitions, escapes, finishes.

You know you are addressing this if you train just boxing/kick boxing.... head and body movement, clinching, combinations, set ups, footwork, control of space

I find it useful to cycle. At both gyms I attend (BJJ and MMA) we'll focus on a particular theme for a week or two. We'll free roll at the end of class, but warm ups and drills will be aimed at developing key attributes for a certain skill set.

For this type of training you leave the monk spade and Kwan Do at home. You bring a cup, a mouthpiece and boxing gloves. You spend A LOT of time on the mat sweating and tired. Unfortunately you sometimes get hurt. Sometimes you get injured.

You can still train around your injuries. This is not the exception, it's the rule for people who train this way. I know in Kung Fu circles that's looked down on: "You train for self defense. Not to get hurt." ..... true. But better to get hurt training with your classmates and develop real skill then have a false sense of security (and superiority) and find out the hard way. Or worse, die the 1,000 deaths of a coward. Spend all this time training and lack the ability/confidence to express yourself fully, stand up for those who need help, etc.

[MightyB]

This guy is training to be a cage fighter

Awesome. You're just jealous because I spend all day online cruising for chicks.

[faxiapreta]

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean that it can't be done. I suppose if I had a SN like HumbleBJJguy and I said wrist lock then you would believe that it is the best alternative.

I find it funny that you see nothing wrong with securing an arm with a it improperly while a guy with a knife plows you in the face until you are forced to let go and then get stabbed repeatedly.

No, you could be HumbleBJJGuy and we'd still think the approach you are advocating is not a good one.

I also see big holes in the Red Zone game, but at least they are training in a somewhat realistic, resisting manner.

I see fewer holes in the Dog Brothers approach, but there are still things that need to be addressed. Their approach seems to have the same problems with the hand switch, as well as the fact that they don't seem to be addressing two blades.

[HumbleWCGuy]

No, you could be HumbleBJJGuy and we'd still think the approach you are advocating is not a good one.

I also see big holes in the Red Zone game, but at least they are training in a somewhat realistic, resisting manner.

I see fewer holes in the Dog Brothers approach, but there are still things that need to be addressed. Their approach seems to have the same problems with the hand switch, as well as the fact that they don't seem to be addressing two blades.

How would you correct the STAB training?

[lkfmdc]

This guy is training to be a cage fighter

you found a pic of HumbleWCGuy