Shaolin Zhan Zhaung

[Hendrik]

This all fires up a lot of really nice feeling stuff.

nice feeling focus,

isnt that the side track which will cause Pin Cha in long term?

[Crosshandz]

nice feeling focus,

isnt that the side track which will cause Pin Cha in long term?

Anyone can do single whip but what differentiates the power of single whip is the cohesive use of body and energy to deliver it. A master could teach the movement single whip to anyone off the street and they would be able to copy its form but lack the intention and ability to use it as it was intended.

To get to that point clearly everyone has to start somewhere unless they are a born genius of fighting. If someone cannot feel whats going on inside their body its useless to try and instruct them in more sophisticated forms of training. Even if my teacher had told me to maintain connection when moving how would I have been able to do it if I couldn't even feel what was supposed to be connected? Once you have made the first step then you can move onto other methods of training.

My curiosity about Shaolin's methods is partly because I simply want to know if and how they have informed that of the Yiquan school and partly because I am intrigued to know if there are things particular to Shaolin might prove interesting to experiment with. Hence why I started this thread.

[Hendrik]

Anyone can do single whip but what differentiates the power of single whip is the cohesive use of body and energy to deliver it.

A master could teach the movement single whip to anyone off the street and they would be able to copy its form but lack the intention and ability to use it as it was intended.

To get to that point clearly everyone has to start somewhere unless they are a born genius of fighting. If someone cannot feel whats going on inside their body its useless to try and instruct them in more sophisticated forms of training. Even if my teacher had told me to maintain connection when moving how would I have been able to do it if I couldn't even feel what was supposed to be connected? Once you have made the first step then you can move onto other methods of training.

My curiosity about Shaolin's methods is partly because I simply want to know if and how they have informed that of the Yiquan school and partly because I am intrigued to know if there are things particular to Shaolin might prove interesting to experiment with. Hence why I started this thread.

feeling is a very fuzzy stuffs.

The issues are there can be different ---- the placement of intention, qi flow path and six directional force vectors paterns exist within the same posture.

unless one knows what are they, one really doesnt know what the posture is for.

so unless you could get the above details from Shao Lin and compare it with Yiquan details, it really doesnt tell much.

[Crosshandz]

feeling is a very fuzzy stuffs.

The issues are there can be different ---- the placement of intention, qi flow path and six directional force vectors paterns exist within the same posture.

unless one knows what are they, one really doesnt know what the posture is for.

so unless you could get the above details from Shao Lin and compare it with Yiquan details, it really doesnt tell much.

Which is why I started this thread.

I was and still am hoping for someone well versed in Shaolin Zhang gong to speak a little more about their methods and maybe open up a bit on what they do and how it to relates to the practices of other styles e.g. Yiquan.

[Hendrik]

Which is why I started this thread.

I was and still am hoping for someone well versed in Shaolin Zhang gong to speak a little more about their methods and maybe open up a bit on what they do and how it to relates to the practices of other styles e.g. Yiquan.

The Shao lin Zhang Gong of Xingyipa Chanwuyi is different from the Yiquan Zhan Zhuang from fundamental.


in general,

Yiquan is intention and Force vectors center system

ChanWuyi is physical flow and Qi flow center system.


Yiquan is core on Shan Ti shi of Xing Yi, even if it is using the posture of XingYipa, it is using Xing Yi Pa's posture to train intention and force vectors. Thus, it is no longer Shao Lin's Xing Yi pa but a Xing Yi evolution adapting Shao Lin's posture.

Not to mention, the center of Wang Xiang-Zai's kung fu is based on Xing Yi's San Ti Shi, he got the kung fu cultivation from Xing Yi. his body- mind has transform that way before goes to Shao lin. Thus, it is very not likely Wang Xiang -Zai is doing Shao lin. He might evolve his Xing Yi but not switch to Shao lin, a transform's body mind is very difficult to change in short time.

[Crosshandz]

The Shao lin Zhang Gong of Xingyipa Chanwuyi is different from the Yiquan Zhan Zhuang from fundamental.


in general,

Yiquan is intention and Force vectors center system

ChanWuyi is physical flow and Qi flow center system.


Yiquan is core on Shan Ti shi of Xing Yi, even if it is using the posture of XingYipa, it is using Xing Yi Pa's posture to train intention and force vectors. Thus, it is no longer Shao Lin's Xing Yi pa but a Xing Yi evolution adapting Shao Lin's posture.

Not to mention, the center of Wang Xiang-Zai's kung fu is based on Xing Yi's San Ti Shi, he got the kung fu cultivation from Xing Yi. his body- mind has transform that way before goes to Shao lin. Thus, it is very not likely Wang Xiang -Zai is doing Shao lin. He might evolve his Xing Yi but not switch to Shao lin, a transform's body mind is very difficult to change in short time.

Now that's a lot clearer.

As I was taught Zhan Zhuang you use intention to learn the different directions of force, how to identify them, how to use them and then you bring them together and train them all at once. The different postures are simply means to stress different things, depending upon preference, the fundamental posture is Chengbao Zhuang the others are variants. Zhan Zhuang helps cultivate and unify your power, when you become still you realise in fact you are moving as a unit and when you can move as a unit you can use your intention to lead your energy and deliver power when striking.

Shaolin ChanWuYi's Zhuan Gong however, to my outsider's eyes, is moving energy within the body along certain lines and directing it in a very particular way. I'm assuming, admittedly in ignorance, that the energy is guided consciously from the centre to where its wanted and then back again? Whereas the method I was taught uses intention and visualisation of phenomena to do this the Shaolin method is centred upon a more direct way?

What Wang Xiangzhai transmitted is closer to what he learned from Guo Yunshen and if he did pick up any postures from Shi Henglin when studying Xinyiba he has sufficiently altered them that today the form remains the same but the body method differs a lot?

Is that right?

Which means that its a safe deduction that the root of many of Yiquan's postures is indeed Shaolin but the body method is from Guo Yunshen? So that even if Shaolin does indeed have more postures it would not make a large difference to me learning them unless I can do what Wang Xiangzhai did and use an "Yi" method of performing them or am instructed in them by a Shaolin master who can teach me the Shaolin way of doing them?

[Hendrik]

Now that's a lot clearer.

As I was taught Zhan Zhuang you use intention to learn the different directions of force, how to identify them, how to use them and then you bring them together and train them all at once. The different postures are simply means to stress different things, depending upon preference, the fundamental posture is Chengbao Zhuang the others are variants. Zhan Zhuang helps cultivate and unify your power, when you become still you realise in fact you are moving as a unit and when you can move as a unit you can use your intention to lead your energy and deliver power when striking.

Shaolin ChanWuYi's Zhuan Gong however, to my outsider's eyes, is moving energy within the body along certain lines and directing it in a very particular way. I'm assuming, admittedly in ignorance, that the energy is guided consciously from the centre to where its wanted and then back again? Whereas the method I was taught uses intention and visualisation of phenomena to do this the Shaolin method is centred upon a more direct way?

What Wang Xiangzhai transmitted is closer to what he learned from Guo Yunshen and if he did pick up any postures from Shi Henglin when studying Xinyiba he has sufficiently altered them that today the form remains the same but the body method differs a lot?

Is that right?

Which means that its a safe deduction that the root of many of Yiquan's postures is indeed Shaolin but the body method is from Guo Yunshen? So that even if Shaolin does indeed have more postures it would not make a large difference to me learning them unless I can do what Wang Xiangzhai did and use an "Yi" method of performing them or am instructed in them by a Shaolin master who can teach me the Shaolin way of doing them?

yup. that seems to be.

Things can look similar however it is core with different type of Kung fu.

[Crosshandz]

yup. that seems to be.

Things can look similar however it is core with different type of Kung fu.

True though if that's the case I don't think the method of Zhuang gong I have learned will do my Kung fu any damage considering the well documented martial ability of its proponents past and present.

All rivers flow out to sea...

However its interesting just to look at the differences in approach that've been developed since the time of Ji Longfeng since ultimately Xinyiba, Xinyiquan, Xingyiquan and Yiquan are all the fruits of his labour.

Thanks for engaging.

[Hendrik]

True though if that's the case

I don't think the method of Zhuang gong I have learned will do my Kung fu any damage considering the well documented martial ability of its proponents past and present.

that needs to know what is your kung fu and what type of stuffs you add in.

All rivers flow out to sea...

that is not the case most of the time even thought most might think that way.

[Crosshandz]

that needs to know what is your kung fu and what type of stuffs you add in.






that is not the case most of the time even thought most might think that way.

I genuinely cannot see any circumstances in which Wang Xiangzhai's methods might be damaging to someone's Kung fu.

But alas you and I do not appear that we will agree on this or much else so its needless to continue going backwards and forwards.

[Hendrik]

I genuinely cannot see any circumstances in which Wang Xiangzhai's methods might be damaging to someone's Kung fu.

But alas you and I do not appear that we will agree on this or much else so its needless to continue going backwards and forwards.

it doesnt matter I agree or not the bottom line is could the technology mix.

[wenshu]

The butcher creates no bad karma.

[bawang]

when you eat an animal, you absorb its qi. its good for you.

[rett]

when you eat an animal, you absorb its qi. its good for you.

Dirty qi. More trouble than it's worth.