What Sets Wing Chun Kicking Appart From Other Systems

[YouKnowWho]

to draw your opponents defense down so that you can apply your hand weapons more efficiently and with less danger to yourself.

It may be interest to find out why the WC "chain punches" principle has not applied to the leg yet. In the Longfist system, there is a "chain kicks" that you keep stepping (not kicking) 45 degree downward on your opponent's knee just like the WC chain punches that constantly hitting on your opponent's face. If you can kick your opponent's knee without looking down, when your opponent looks down at your low kick, it will give you an excellent chance to punch on his face.

[Lee Chiang Po]

It may be interest to find out why the WC "chain punches" principle has not applied to the leg yet. In the Longfist system, there is a "chain kicks" that you keep stepping (not kicking) 45 degree downward on your opponent's knee just like the WC chain punches that constantly hitting on your opponent's face. If you can kick your opponent's knee without looking down, when your opponent looks down at your low kick, it will give you an excellent chance to punch on his face.

This is basically what I was talking about in my last post. I have used a front heel kick to the hip, pelvic bridge, or knee, then come down on the foot or ankle, step in again and fire off another round of kicks, all in as rapid a motion as I can muster, then come in over that with both hands, either to punch or to grab and turn my opponent. If I can turn him a bit suddenly I can also get a foot into the back of his knee, bringing him down to his knees for a followup of kicking from behind. Fighting is brutal.
As a young man I was known to be bad about kicking. I didn't just kick, but would use well placed kicks with all the power I could gather. It has gotten me into trouble for sure, but it has also saved my butt. The thing about the front heel kick is that you can turn the foot left or right sort of like a side kick, and you can apply it in a very tight space.

[metrosonus]

I think kicks in general make you too vulnerable. For one, they telegraph easy as many of them require a chambering and two, if you miss or land a weak kick, you can be trapped, thrown or just thrown off balance.

That's a large part of the reason I quit Tang So Doo; it simply wasn't an effective self defense form. Hapkido is another story, but many times in sparring class I felt frustrated because someone would leave a poorly executed axe kick hanging off of my defending arm. I was unable to throw or otherwise punish the opponent because of the "sport" rules they observe.

Kicks are an effective attack, but the ones that require chambering, in my opinion are best utilized after an upper body volley of attacks to raise the opponents guard. this particularly works on defensive opponents.

For offensive opponents, I would rather redirect or work around the attack energy and utilize the traditional wing chun kicks and focus on the knee, the supporting leg and sweeps.

[YouKnowWho]

I think kicks in general make you too vulnerable.

If you don't

- punch your opponent, your opponent will punch you.
- kick your opponent, your opponent wil kick you.

It's better to punch/kick your opponent than the other way around. As long as your opponent is busy to handle your punches and kicks, he will have no time to attack you. That will make you safe.

Your kick can help you to close the gap safely. It's the 1st step of your entering strategy.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1115895

Your kick can help you to close the gap safely. It's the 1st step of your entering strategy.[/QUOTE]
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No/yes depends.......
joy chaudhuri

[Lee Chiang Po]

It is easy to attack someone by surprise, and if you are committed to brutality you will be able to take him down directly. However, if someone becomes aware of your intentions and takes a defensive stance you might be in for a hard fight. Making that bridge can be hard, and if you are not quick you can end up knocked out or worse. The low kicks don't require a great deal of advance notice to fire off at an opponent. You can fake an upper assault and then come under with a devistating kick, When the defense drops down you come back in over that and try to punch or even trap an arm. If I can get hold of someone I can usually jerk and push them very hard and fast enough to spin them around or at least take them off balance. If you can violate their center they can not effectively defend against your punches or kicks. The thing here is that in any event you have to be like a mad dog and overwhelm him.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I saw a post about hips. I have found that there are safe ways to do about any kick. I spent some time in TKD so I learned some very safe and standard practices for high kicks. However, with the advent of youtube, I am seeing a lot of variations of kicks that are showing up that aren't safe for people with average hip flexibility.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I served in Viet Nam with a ROC Captain that was a 4th black belt in TKD. He could do all sorts of high kicks that I simply did not have the hip action to do. What I find amazing is that the kicks I learned as a teen, I can still do quite well at 66. I will be able to do them for whatever years I have left unless I am crippled in some way. High kicks and kicks that require special conditioning will leave you one day. They will stop working for you or will just get too hard to do.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I served in Viet Nam with a ROC Captain that was a 4th black belt in TKD. He could do all sorts of high kicks that I simply did not have the hip action to do.

I don't want to presume to know your body or situation, but I think that TKD does a pretty good job of getting you to where you can do those kicks. Even McDojo's seem to do a good job of teaching the training and technique necessary to do the kicks. Had you gone through the training perhaps you could do those kicks?

What I find amazing is that the kicks I learned as a teen, I can still do quite well at 66. I will be able to do them for whatever years I have left unless I am crippled in some way. High kicks and kicks that require special conditioning will leave you one day. They will stop working for you or will just get too hard to do.

Very true. No matter what you do... I think that it all will come back to those core WC kicks.

[zenmindsword]

To those who are interested - twelve years ago I came across a lineage of Ip Man that did emphasized kicking much more than the average Ip Man lineage. I have written an eBook based on the little that I learned and what I understood of the style from my limited perspective.

The eBook will be released on 9 Aug 2011 and is available from http://zenmindsword.webs.com/. Do take a look if you are interested. If not, kindly ignore this post.

I have also written random posts on it on my blog at http://singaporetaijiquan.wordpress.com/. Click on the category of TIMQ and Wing Chun to see posts on Wing Chun that I wrote.

Thanks for reading. Back to work.

[GlennR]

To those who are interested - twelve years ago I came across a lineage of Ip Man that did emphasized kicking much more than the average Ip Man lineage. I have written an eBook based on the little that I learned and what I understood of the style from my limited perspective.

The eBook will be released on 9 Aug 2011 and is available from http://zenmindsword.webs.com/. Do take a look if you are interested. If not, kindly ignore this post.

I have also written random posts on it on my blog at http://singaporetaijiquan.wordpress.com/. Click on the category of TIMQ and Wing Chun to see posts on Wing Chun that I wrote.

Thanks for reading. Back to work.

Looks interesting.
I look forawrd to the read

[Vajramusti]

It may be interest to find out why the WC "chain punches" principle has not applied to the leg yet. In the Longfist system, there is a "chain kicks" that you keep stepping (not kicking) 45 degree downward on your opponent's knee just like the WC chain punches that constantly hitting on your opponent's face. If you can kick your opponent's knee without looking down, when your opponent looks down at your low kick, it will give you an excellent chance to punch on his face.

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We practice lots of kicks in our WC system. Ip Man himself was a great kicker. But strategy and tactics in using wing chun kicks has their own logic.

joy chaudhuri

[GlennR]

I am curious about what some might say.

Well the difference for me is that all our footwork, and therefore kicking , revolves around Gee Kim Yeung Ma.

The nature of this stance, and the associated stepping/turning, means that a lot of the kicks you see in other MA's just wont fit with this stance.

For example, a MT leg kick involves a step on the non-kicking leg, to open the hips, and commiting to a full turn of the body off that supporting leg

You cant do this and maintain a WC stance.

THe WC kicks tie in with the stance, generally low, straight and the heel as the strike.

[Vajramusti]

Well the difference for me is that all our footwork, and therefore kicking , revolves around Gee Kim Yeung Ma.

The nature of this stance, and the associated stepping/turning, means that a lot of the kicks you see in other MA's just wont fit with this stance.

For example, a MT leg kick involves a step on the non-kicking leg, to open the hips, and commiting to a full turn of the body off that supporting leg

You cant do this and maintain a WC stance.

THe WC kicks tie in with the stance, generally low, straight and the heel as the strike.

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Hi Glenn-my perspective and experience is apparently different-but it is wing chun.
I have worked out with some MT folks at one time or another. I don't do MT. Without going on and on...
YGKYM is the fundamental stance- it's also our fundamental DEVELOPMENTAL stance to align key elements of our structure. When that is well learned- chum kiu gives plenty of mobility, turns and weight shifting for doing what one wants to do...without using MT , TKD or other alternative alignments. Kicking low is part of good fighting tactics. In development you can kick in a variety of ways using wc principles and open up joints etc. But, I understand folks have different views

joy chaudhuri

[GlennR]

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Hi Glenn-my perspective and experience is apparently different-but it is wing chun.
I have worked out with some MT folks at one time or another. I don't do MT. Without going on and on...
YGKYM is the fundamental stance- it's also our fundamental DEVELOPMENTAL stance to align key elements of our structure. When that is well learned- chum kiu gives plenty of mobility, turns and weight shifting for doing what one wants to do...without using MT , TKD or other alternative alignments. Kicking low is part of good fighting tactics. In development you can kick in a variety of ways using wc principles and open up joints etc. But, I understand folks have different views

joy chaudhuri

Sure, i take your point Joy, and i wasnt suggesting that i fight from YGKYM.
But, as ive highlighted in your post, YGKYM gives you the guidlines of a certain structure you should maintain whist fighting and from my expewrience that doesnt lend itself to to the proper execution of some kicks from other systems.

Having said that, fighting is fighting and id be the 1st to kick outside the system if it would give me the win