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Thread: Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff

  1. #751
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    Ancient Worthies on eating Meat

    It wasn't just ancient Chinese poets and Buddhists discussing the connection between eating animals and potential affects/results thereof, but even some of the oldest known Western Ancients.

    An article on Ovid and Pythagoras in which the importance of abstaining from eating living beings is emphasized:

    http://mathisencorollary.blogspot.co...ention-of.html

    Nowadays, we STILL gamble and hatch bets that we aren't causing animal deaths by eating meat. Ovid quotes his teacher Pythagoras:

    Earth is abundantly wealthy and freely provides you
    her gentle sustenance, offered without any bloodshed
    Further we are cautioned (bolding my own):

    Meat is for beasts to feed on, yet not all
    Are carnivores, for horses, sheep, and cattle
    Subsist on grass, but those whose disposition
    Is fierce and cruel, tigers, raging lions,
    And bears and wolves delight in bloody feasting.
    Oh, what a wicked thing it is for flesh
    To be the tomb of flesh, for the body's craving
    To fatten on the body of another,
    For one live creature to continue living
    Through one live creature's death
    .
    Here we see commentary about not only the killing itself that must be done, but acting upon the very craving that leads to that killing [and subsequent eating].


    This resembles a bit from the Lankavatara, where the Buddha simply illustrates the endless cycle:

    "Mahamati, I see that from the beginningless time, because of the habit of meat eating and the greed for flavors of meats, living beings kill and hurt each others in never ending cycles, thus they are apart from sages and suffering from births and deaths."
    Just as the Lankavatara mentions the meat-craving/eaters as being apart from sages, Ovid also alludes to a "Golden time" of purity where flesh-eating was not done:

    The Cyclops Could do no worse!
    Must you destroy another
    To satiate your greedy-gutted cravings?
    There was a time, the Golden Age, we call it,
    Happy in fruits and herbs, when no men tainted
    Their lips with blood
    , and birds went flying safely
    Through air, and in the fields the rabbits wandered
    In the same way Ovid quotes Pyathagoras' mention of meat-eating as defiling
    "Mortals, refrain from defiling your bodies with sinful
    feasting [of meat/animal],
    we see a striking resemblance to parts of the Brahma Net Sutra, where it explains that intentional meat-eating is also a defiling offense.

    Hence, if a Bodhisattva deliberately eats meat, he thereby violates this minor precept and commits defiling offense.

  2. #752
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    Very nice.

    I reserve the right to be wrong but as far as i remember;

    It is true that Pythagoras was vegetarian, more than this he believed in the transmigration of souls, even that he could remember his past lives. In a previous incarnation after some heroic deed he was offered a gift from the gods, he picked the gift that he might retain his memory after death. Pythagoras thought he could remember these previous incarnations.

    Pythagoras was the first man to call himself a philosopher, not daring to call himself wise he called himself a 'lover of wisdom'. He is really the father figure of western philosophy although we only seem to remember him for triangles! There is a reference where Plato is referred to as the 9th in line from Pythagoras.

    Pythagoras wrote nothing down, but the line of his disciples did. Fragments of these remain. He seemed to have a doctrine that (in my opinion) resembles Yin and Yang, about the 'limited' and the 'unlimited' elements and the principle of 'harmonia' through which they are conjoined.

    Pythagoras spent over 20 years in Egypt studying, but he also spent man years studying with the Magi and his travels may have taken him deep into Iran.

    Pythagoras is greatly revered by the Ancients. Those interested in the ideas of Pythagoras it is probably best to look at the work of Iamblichus who, though a Platonist, and living 800 years later, wrote on the doctrines and life of Pythagoras from sources we no longer have. The fact Ovid (writing 500 years after) included Pythagoras in the Metamorphoses is a testament to his importance in ancient thought.

    What is fascinating is that Pythagoras, Buddha and Lao Tzu all lived about the same time! It is very possible their lives overlapped in time. The great sages of the West, India and the East.

    Buddha was in India, LaoTzu was last seen riding towards India and Pythagoras travelled far in his studies with the Magi, maybe he went this far too? Ahaha, fanciful thinking!
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 07-08-2014 at 06:34 AM.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post

    What is fascinating is that Pythagoras, Buddha and Lao Tzu all lived about the same time! It is very possible their lives overlapped in time. The great sages of the West, India and the East.

    Buddha was in India, LaoTzu was last seen riding towards India and Pythagoras travelled far in his studies with the Magi, maybe he went this far too? Ahaha, fanciful thinking!
    And interesting, all have mentions of eating vegetarian/flesh and meat-free diets to some extent.


    Here's an excerpt from a brief article on Taoism and Vegetarianism:

    Quote Originally Posted by Taoism and Vegetarianism
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/12845383/T...-Vegetarianism

    A few examples of the Taoism precept of vegetarian diet and non-killing way of lifego as follows:

    Example one: in the book entitled “Lao Tzu one hundred and eight commandments” commandment were inscrolled as below:

    ♦The 4th commandment: Do not kill or harm any lives
    ♦The 79th commandment: Do not go fishing or hunting
    ♦The 95th commandment: Do not dig out any lives from underground in winter
    ♦The 97th commandment: Do not break nests and eggs.

    Example two: in the book of “Zhong Ji three hundred commandments” recorded that do not eat flesh or drink blood from any living beings.Being a vegetarian is not only the basic precept for any Taoism practitioners, but alsois closely related to “Tao” realization. In other words, being vegetarian was very necessary to reach the spiritual level to fully realize “Tao”.

    “It is a waste of time to talk about Tao if one do not avoid eating flesh and follow precepts”, said Zuo XianTzu, a famous Taoist master.
    .......
    However, the transform of religion itself has cumbered the inheritance of this [vegetarian] principle. People forgot that adopting a vegetarian diet was not only the precept of religions, but also the law of universe as advocated in Taoism.

  4. #754
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    *be european
    *lecture others on not harming living beings

    ok mang

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
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  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    *be european
    *lecture others on not harming living beings

    ok mang
    Cool.

    *be racist
    *imply that one should merely passively accept that others help kill baby calves to have cheese on their pizza - causing significant environmental degradation and wasted resources in the process


    Actually I should say - *imply that quoting and referencing relevant ancient philosophers is "lecturing"

  6. #756
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    i am not racist. i have one white friend.

    in the view of buddhism eating cute baby cows is good thing. animals are reincarnated evil people who were downgraded. it is our duty to eat them to fulfill their dharma, or they will be forced to continue their cycle of animal hood. only by eating a cute baby cow can u set its soul free.

    also environmental damage doesnt matter. you can just reincarnate onto a different planet.

    in shaolin jinnaluo cult, when you kill something you absorb its qi. meat eaters absorb the life essence of thousands of baby chickens and cows. our power levels are so immense, we are almost like gods. that is why jet li consumed the frog in shaolin temple 1. you have learned nothing.
    Last edited by bawang; 07-13-2014 at 08:46 PM.

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
    Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC

  7. #757
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    White privilege? Or modern-refrigerator privilege?

    So we have religious followers which are explicitly insistent on plant-based diets:

    Buddhists (per mahayana sutras)
    Jains
    Select Taoists
    Select Rastafari groups

    Nazirites (abrahamic religion followers on specific vows? not exactly sure. This link didn't help clarify too much either given it's lack of academic clarity: http://messianic.nazirene.org/nazir.htm)


    And some philosophers who were vegetarian (or at least promoted it favorably):
    Laozi
    Pythagoras
    Ovid
    Empedocles
    Seneca
    Porphyry
    Diogenes
    Plato
    Plutarch
    Epicurus


    for a potentially varied number of reasons: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21104333097357

    Some not as ancient:
    Leonardo Da Vinci
    Voltaire (maybe)
    Sir Isaac Newton
    Nikola Tesla
    Thomas Edison

    Mohandas Gandhi
    Leo Tolstoy
    George Bernard Shaw
    Albert Einstein


    And the most important two:
    Mister Rogers
    Mike Tyson

    I actually threw this list together to start collecting quotes. Some of them have some pretty interesting commentary on meat-eating.

    Who would you add to the list?

  8. #758
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    We might add the Tibetan Buddhist Yogin Shabkar to the list. I believe one of his important foci is on vegetarianism. Here is a link:

    http://www.shabkar.org
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    if the epitome of CMA is dancing like a transgender Uyghur acrobat with down syndrome, then by all means.

  9. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Nazirites (abrahamic religion followers on specific vows? not exactly sure. This link didn't help clarify too much either given it's lack of academic clarity: http://messianic.nazirene.org/nazir.htm)
    Nazarite Vow involved animal sacrifice. The story of Sampson, most famous Nazarite, includes him killing a lion.
    To my knowledge, there was originally no prohibition on meat eating.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Nazarite Vow involved animal sacrifice.
    I believe it was based Numbers 6:6

    6 All the days that he separateth himself unto the Lord he shall come near no dead body [or corpse].
    https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Numbers%206:6

    Analyzing the original texts, rather than english translations, would help know what it is SPECIFICALLY referencing - or to have studied the original language contextual clues and know exactly if it references only specific animals.

    This is the line referenced in my linked site before, and elsewhere online as a reason many Rastafari and Nazirite-vow taking people abstain from eating dead-animals.

    __________________________________________________ ________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by KellenBassette
    Nazarite Vow involved animal sacrifice.
    And now, I'm not a scholar on the bible and couldn't pretend to be interested in being one.

    The link I gave in my last post specifically attempts to refute the animal-sacrifice claim you make:

    The early Christian writer Epiphanius admits that the Nazarenes "eat no meat", and modern scholars concur; Hugh Shonfield, in The Passover Plot:

    "There has been emerging ever clearer evidence that in the Galilean region an ancient Israelitish type of religion persisted in the time of Jesus, defying Judean efforts to obliterate it.... The name he bears, Jesus the Nazorean, has northern sectarian implications.... The name borne by the earliest followers of Jesus was not Christians: they were called Nazoreans (Nazarenes).... They were vegetarians and rejected animal sacrifices."

  11. #761
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post

    Analyzing the original texts, rather than english translations, would help know what it is SPECIFICALLY referencing - or to have studied the original language contextual clues and know exactly if it references only specific animals.
    I don't pretend to have read the original texts, but I'm pretty confident that the verse refers to a human corpse, as becoming "unclean" or "defiled" by a corpse, or a myriad of other things, is a common motif in Abrahamic religions and often rectified with animal sacrifice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    The link I gave in my last post specifically attempts to refute the animal-sacrifice claim you make:
    If there was a Nazarite sect that abstained from meat/sacrifice, post Jesus, it must have been far removed from the original Nazarites, which were recorded much earlier. At any rate, claims that the earliest followers of Christ were vegetarian is in direct conflict with the biblical accounts of the first Christians.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  12. #762
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    Is meat eating/consumption compatible with environmentalism?

    Probably one of the more important topics related to meat-eating/and animal consumption would be the sustainability (or lack thereof) and how it affects the environment.

    A recent documentary, Cowspiracy, attempted to talk to some of the foremost environmental groups on the topic. Most of them, unfortunately, came out looking either unclear (on their own supposed area of expertise) or worse, intentionally disingenuous.

    Trailer is here: http://vimeo.com/95436726

    A brief review from a vegan blogger here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frz_Q69UBCc

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3302820/
    Last edited by Matthew; 12-19-2014 at 06:08 PM.

  13. #763
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    Slightly OT

    This came up on the newsfeeds on a German/China site.

    german.china.org.cn | 15. 06. 2015
    Shaolin-Mönche können nicht nur Kampfkunst, sondern auch Feldarbeit
    Schlagwörter: Shaolin-Mönche Kampfkunst Feldarbeit

    Das berühmte Shaolin Kloster in der Stadt Dengfeng hat wieder einmal die Aufmerksamkeit der Medien auf sich gezogen. Diesmal aber nicht wegen der Kampfkunst, sondern wegen der Erntezeit. Etwa acht Hektar des Kloster eigenen Weizens ist nun reif. Am 14. Juni haben die Mönche ihren Weizen auf der Farm geerntet.

    Bereits in der Antike sollten die Shaolin Mönche neben dem Training der buddhistischen Lehre und der Kampfkunst Feldarbeit leisten. Vor einigen Jahren hatte das Kloster 100 Hektar Ackerland gepachtet und eine Farm darauf errichtet. Hier werden jetzt Getreide, Gemüse und Obst angebaut.

    Die Ernte wirft rund 50 Tonnen Weizen ab. Das "biologisch angebaute" Getreide soll 400 Mönche und über einhundert Kinder des Waisenhauses, das zum Kloster gehört, versorgen.











    Translation courtesy of translation.babylon.com:
    Shaolin Monks can not only martial arts, but also field
    keywords: Shaolin Monks martial arts field
    the famous Shaolin monastery in the city Dengfeng has once again attracted the attention of the media. But this time not because of the martial arts, but because of the season. Approximately eight hectares of the monastery's own wheat is now ripe. On 14. June The monks have harvested their wheat on the farm.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  14. #764
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    More Shaolin farming

    Corny title for this first article.

    A-maizing hospitality: Shaolin temple monks share their first organic corn harvest with visitors
    PUBLISHED : Thursday, 08 October, 2015, 4:54pm
    UPDATED : Thursday, 08 October, 2015, 4:54pm
    Celine Sun celine.sun@scmp.com


    Visitors to the Shaolin Temple in Henan province were given a taste of the monk's organic corn. Photo: Henan Business Daily

    Tourists visiting northern China’s famed Shaolin Monastery in Henan province on the last day of the National Day holiday received a surprise treat from monks who cooked up more than a tonne of their own organically grown corn.

    The corn was part of the first harvest this year at the temple that dates to the 5th century and is known as the birthplace of Chan (Zen) Buddhism and Shaolin Kung Fu, news portal Dahe.cn reported.

    The temple established the farm in May this year as part of its programme to resume the temple’s tradition of farming, which was considered a method of Buddhist practice in ancient times. Monks in China traditionally did not beg, so grew their own food.

    More than 400 monks at the temple planted wheat and corn on the farm without using pesticides or chemical fertiliser, and they expect to harvest 400 tonnes of corn this autumn.

    One monk said they gave away corn to tourists on Wednesday because they thought it would be inconvenient for people to find somewhere to eat during the busy “golden week” holidays. But this would not be a regular practice in future, he added.

    “We first have supply to our own temple and the orphanage we manage,” he said. “We may use the produce to ‘form ties’ with outside only if there’s an oversupply or the produce cannot be kept for long.”


    The corn was the first harvested from a new farm started this year in the grounds of the 5th century Buddhist monastery. Photo: Chinanews.com
    Shaolin Monastery Gives Free Corn Cobs to Visitors to Mark Autumn Harvest Festival
    2015-10-08 21:06:38 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Wang


    Monks from the Shaolin Monastery in central China's Henan province handed out free boiled corn cobs to all visitors to mark the autumn harvest festival that falls on October 10, 2015. [Photo: CFP]


    Monks from the Shaolin Monastery in central China's Henan province handed out free boiled corn cobs to all visitors to mark the autumn harvest festival that falls on October 10, 2015. [Photo: CFP]


    Monks from the Shaolin Monastery in central China's Henan province handed out free boiled corn cobs to all visitors to mark the autumn harvest festival that falls on October 10, 2015. [Photo: CFP]
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  15. #765
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Very nice.

    I reserve the right to be wrong but as far as i remember;

    It is true that Pythagoras was vegetarian, more than this he believed in the transmigration of souls, even that he could remember his past lives. In a previous incarnation after some heroic deed he was offered a gift from the gods, he picked the gift that he might retain his memory after death. Pythagoras thought he could remember these previous incarnations.

    Pythagoras was the first man to call himself a philosopher, not daring to call himself wise he called himself a 'lover of wisdom'. He is really the father figure of western philosophy although we only seem to remember him for triangles! There is a reference where Plato is referred to as the 9th in line from Pythagoras.

    Pythagoras wrote nothing down, but the line of his disciples did. Fragments of these remain. He seemed to have a doctrine that (in my opinion) resembles Yin and Yang, about the 'limited' and the 'unlimited' elements and the principle of 'harmonia' through which they are conjoined.

    Pythagoras spent over 20 years in Egypt studying, but he also spent man years studying with the Magi and his travels may have taken him deep into Iran.

    Pythagoras is greatly revered by the Ancients. Those interested in the ideas of Pythagoras it is probably best to look at the work of Iamblichus who, though a Platonist, and living 800 years later, wrote on the doctrines and life of Pythagoras from sources we no longer have. The fact Ovid (writing 500 years after) included Pythagoras in the Metamorphoses is a testament to his importance in ancient thought.

    What is fascinating is that Pythagoras, Buddha and Lao Tzu all lived about the same time! It is very possible their lives overlapped in time. The great sages of the West, India and the East.

    Buddha was in India, LaoTzu was last seen riding towards India and Pythagoras travelled far in his studies with the Magi, maybe he went this far too? Ahaha, fanciful thinking!
    Thank you nice post. Ancient knowledge. It was not exclusive to any one race or location. Ancient knowledge encompasses a lot.

    Bawang's reply. I have one white friend. LOL. LOL.
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 10-08-2015 at 09:47 AM.

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