Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff

[Sevan]

I'm just currious...

To those who are, Why are you a vegetarain or vegan?

As I'm looking into it but dunno, sound good in some ways but I just dont know.

Thanks,
Shane

[rett]

I'm enjoying the discussion on vegetarianism in the zhan zhuang thread. I wonder if we could continue it here, so the crosshandz can keep the focus on zhan zhuang?

LFJ mentions how the Chanwuyi website mentions that meat blocks attaining englightenment. As I understand it, LFJ considers this claim to be unsubstantiated.

In another section of the site the argument is more nuanced. Please see here:

http://www.chanwuyi.org/showroom/mod...47851750356729

First of all it's starts by saying "True followers of Shaolin Chanwuyi are vegetarians with a special diet". So right off, the article makes it clear that this is the view of a particular subbranch of the Caodong (jap. Soto) school, called ChanWuYi.

The heart of the argument on the page is that meat affects one's mental state and health. According to the chanwuyi theory, meat and spicy vegetables make it harder to have a stable and calm mind. They can also harm the body.

The scriptural reference is to Lankavatara Sutra.

For laypeople the recommendation on the site is appropriate amounts of meat or spicy vegetables when you are healthy. And in times of illness, no meat or spicy vegetables.

For someone seriously training and trying to reach a high level the more restrictive diet applies.

I find the more detailed explanations of what the Chanwuyi believe to be more helpful than the sweeping statement that LFJ reacted to, and which may have been written by the site author.

[RenDaHai]

In order to get anywhere in this training you need focus.

The Bland diet and lack of distractions can help this in most people.

The first stage of Practice is often referred to as Fuhu, Taming the Tiger. (The tiger being the unconscious element of your mind). The ability to achieve focus is essential.

Once you reach this level you can eat McDonalds every day and live in a Brothel and you will still be able to attain focus.

There are no Rules, No prerequisites. There is simply useful advice to help you along your way. In the end this kind of Kung Fu can only be realised by yourself. No master can take you with him. Just point you on a shorter path.

[Hendrik]

Why make life so difficult?

Follow the instruction for 100 days with the Neigong practice to cultivate Qi and find out what happen and how your body -mind transform.

Often, it is a problem for those who keep wanting proof and debating and arguing the basic , those are wasting of life. These people never really practice anything deeper but keep spinning their head and skeptics on anything beside their own skeptics and doubtfull mind.






Why you need to be vegetarianism?

in the most basic,

because if you take animal product and trying to cultivate and accumulate Qi in your Dan Tian, you will end up leak it out via sexual dream or unknown anger which disrupt your mind body.

vegetarianism is to avoid the above to happen in order to complete the training.




Some love to argue and debate.... on the sutra. Any serious advance Chan practitioner knows, Whatever the Shurangama sutra says NO. one dont argue. Why? because those are the safe guard and one could read in the history of Chinese Buddhism what goes wrong with those violate it. How many in the history of Chinese Buddhism which knows how to argue with clear twisiting words end up in trouble? read the history.

Again, if your Kung fu is advance, you know it because you can scan your body and mind and know what is the reaction.



It is a bad habit to require REASONS for everything as in the Post Newtonian philosophy science thinking if one has good reason that is the ultimate. knowing not that mind-body-soul cultivation is beyond Reasons, meaning reason doesnt cover everythings.

For example,

how many of people here can enter into silence, have accumulated Zhen Qi in the Dan Tian, and be able to evoke it at will? one can have all the reasons wherether that is possible, what happen, suspicion......etc but if you cant do it. then what is the point? you just dont know and you dont have experience.

To those who has the ability, they knows, sex is draining, meat is excitation. it is just how it is. No reasons, that is how the body and mind react.

So, one can have all the reasons and all the arguement....etc. those are just makes believe similar to those who has never eat apple keep skeptic and argue why why why.... Those are a wasting of time. the bottom line is to get the kung fu and see it for yourself if it support the training or it do nothing.



In China, instructors, expecially the advance one usually purposely expect someone to just follow the instruction and not answer to those questions because they are checking if the student is the real deal. most likely, 80%-90% of the student who keep skeptic and asking quenstions are those who is "talking Zen" just talk and not willing to do anywork. thus, it is a wasting of energy to deal with this type of student which at the end doesnt develop any kung fu but keep spinning the mind.



Asking Quesition is good if the question is for clarification,

however, when one ask all the question started with accusing others is dishonest, using skeptics attitude, challenging.....ect. Those are a wasting of energy which should be ignored because it doesnt contribute to any practice. no one ask you to practice if you has doubt dont practice.

[GeneChing]

...who here is vegetarian?

[rett]

...who here is vegetarian?

I'm sort of half-heartedly trying to be. Munching that tofu. Occasionally a slice of bacon or five slides down the hatch though. Dang, I'm a bad perso... mmmm.

For Hendrik: I've done 30 days Buddhist vegetarian food + full celibate + neigong about 1 1/2 to 2 hours early every morning (getting up about 4 or 5) plus regular training in the day. This once a year for the last four years. Afterwards I feel great. Healthy and strong.

So put it together... thats 120 days

[LFJ]

because if you take animal product and trying to cultivate and accumulate Qi in your Dan Tian, you will end up leak it out via sexual dream or unknown anger which disrupt your mind body.

This is the type of thing I'm saying you can't just claim without providing evidence to support it. If you have no evidence, there is no reason to believe it to be true and you shouldn't pass it around as if it were so.

Like the other things in the Zhan Zhuang thread you asked to have translated. They are just more claims of the same type, without evidence.

For example; "荦食者比素食者更易冲动，更有进攻性，这从动物界的行为能看出来。"

My translation is; "Meat eaters are more impulsive and aggressive than vegetarians, this can be seen in the behavior within the animal kingdom."

This is ridiculous. Carnivorous animals are of course more aggressive because they have to stalk and chase their prey. They don't get a free and easy meal like vegetarians. This is not at all caused by what goes into their stomach.

To use examples in the animal kingdom as proof of emotional or personality effects different diets have on human beings is ignorant. What would be accepted as proof of this claim would be an actual peer-reviewed scientific journal demonstrating the claim to be true. Not just someone saying so.

...who here is vegetarian?

I've been on the vegetarian diet for many years. So I'm not arguing against it at all. I'm simply asking for reasonable evidence to support claims made in regards to diet and training of Qigong and high level of Gongfu, which some people have been claiming requires a vegetarian diet.

[David Jamieson]

...who here is vegetarian?

I know several, am not one myself but did practice it for a time due to my father becoming one.

Of the vegetarians I know, only one or two out of a dozen or so are vegan. Those 2 are sick often, pale, can't take cold weather and run a gamut of issues with their health. Vegans....

Of the rest, similar things. frequent sickness, colds etc, weakness, paleness etc.

Of all of them, only one is fit and in good shape. he's lacto ovarian (milk eggs and cheese is ok) and he eats a lot and works out a lot. (the others don't).

If you are blood type O it's going to be difficult.

Many people do not go about being a vegetarian very well. They practice it badly because they approach it from the wrong place. They approach it not from a healthy attitude about it, but rather they approach it from a critical attitude about eating meat.

this is my observation anyway.

[Hendrik]

As I said, this is kind of True while 'Taming the Tiger' and that is part of the 'Taming' of the tiger.

But its not important after it and not essential for it.

If you can evoke ZhenQi at will none of these other things matter any more, nor does any of the zhuang practice, or any of the breath or anything else.

that is not true at all.

after one has the ren and du medirians flow connected, one will not use the ren to p@nis routh as much any more. one has switch the path of Qi.


Sex break the ren and du flow and force the qi goes from ren down to the p@nis and drain the heck out of your dan dien.


before you got the Zhen Qi accumulate, your drain is little per sex. after you got your dan dian fill you drain it big time. not to mention every time one have sex you break the ren and du flow. and one has to retrain it to go back to the ren and du flow which is down from ren upward with du down to dan dien with ren and storing in Dan dian. if you dont do that it will go as dan dien to P@nis and will not go upward with du and not store but drain.

one of the reason one has wet dream is because the habit of sex that make it flow down to peni$ instead of going back upward with Du medirian.



as for anger, if your Ren and Du doesnt govern and balance, then anger is not easy to settle naturally.


So, if you eat meat and have sex after you got the kung fu, that is suicide. one better off dont train.

[David Jamieson]

that is not true at all.

after one has the ren and du medirians flow connected, one will not use the ren to p@nis routh as much any more. one has switch the path of Qi.


Sex break the ren and du flow and force the qi goes from ren down to the p@nis and drain the heck out of your dan dien.


before you got the Zhen Qi accumulate, your drain is little per sex. after you got your dan dian fill you drain it big time. not to mention every time one have sex you break the ren and du flow. and one has to retrain it to go back to the ren and du flow which is down from ren upward with du down to dan dien and storing in Dan dian. if you dont do that it will go as dan dien to Peni$ and will not go upward with du.

one of the reason one has wet dream is because the habit of sex that make it flow down to peni$ instead of going back upward with Du medirian.



as for anger, if your Ren and Du doesnt govern and balance, then anger is not easy to settle naturally.


So, if you eat meat and have sex after you got the kung fu, that is suicide. one better off dont train.

I think this is a very complicated view to adhere to.

Simply, we become aware, we learn to cultivate, we know what degrades and we manage from there. With strength and all things in moderation, we do not need to know linguistic details in regards to how we actually are able to feel our body work or react to what we put in it.

[Happy Tiger]

Is any one around here a vegemuhtarian? If so, I'm very interested in your opinions, diet choices and experiences. Also, why vegi?
So much gung fu comes from Siu Lum which practices vegetarian diet. Many of the siu lum adepts that fled to the west have admited falling off the vegi-wagon, some have expressed regret.
Any imput for those of us boxers who will punch a face but not eat one?
I originally posted this in the wing chun forum but suppose this is more appropriate. Just whether or not any one will see it.

[Scott R. Brown]

Is any one around here a vegemuhtarian? If so, I'm very interested in your opinions, diet choices and experiences. Also, why vegi?
So much gung fu comes from Siu Lum which practices vegetarian diet. Many of the siu lum adepts that fled to the west have admited falling off the vegi-wagon, some have expressed regret.
Any imput for those of us boxers who will punch a face but not eat one?
I originally posted this in the wing chun forum but suppose this is more appropriate. Just whether or not any one will see it.

Even the Shaolin understood that eating meat is important to developing proper strength and health. So the Shaolin fighters were permitted to eat meat.

I wouldn't waste my time with a vegetarian diet if your sole purpose is to help your fighting skills.

[Matthew]

Hi Happy Tiger,

Not only are nearly all Chinese monks vegetarian, but many refrain from any animal products such as Egg or Milk.

I started my reduction of meat consumption quite a time before I found my way into buddhist practice- for health reasons.

If you want to build muscle or "be strong"- eating meat is not directly related at all (with the exception you may be eating injected horomone and growing because of it?).

As far as training gong fu is concerned, buddhist practice may be concerned primarily health cultivation and self understanding. Part of health cultivation means longevity with quality of life- the focus being quality.

If you want more information on Clinical research done I'd suggest Dr. Greger's website that offers literally 100's of free videos on all of the planets most recent/updated and respected clinical nutrition research.

http://nutritionfacts.org/

If you click "Most Watched" or even just scroll through, you'll find plenty about meat consumption, and many more about animal product consumption (milk, egg, etc) and to what extent eating animal products reduces quality and quantity of your life!

[Matthew]

Found some quick links to share on the topics to make it quicker to find animal consumption related videos:


http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/animal-products/

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/animal-protein/

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/meat/

Hope it helps you with your questions, Happy Tiger!

I've noted huge improvement in general feeling and a feeling of lightness when not consuming meat. I noticed this shortly after I had started my transition into vegetarian diet couples years back- after a month or so of not eating meat and went back to eating meat- I can only describe the feeling that my bloodstream felt heavy/sluggish!

[Scott R. Brown]

Interesting anecdotal evidence, I have some anecdotal evidence of my own from when I ate vegetarian in the past:


I was hungry all the time, I had to eat almost every two hours and I could never get enough to eat to supply my energy needs. It did not make me feel any more energetic then when eating meat. Only hungry all the time.