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Thread: Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff

  1. #16
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    I'm Shaolin, but I also practice SongXi (Wudang). I learned from an old man in a forgotten village, but thats not important

    炁 is the character specifically for ZhenQi, its not used any more. (Combin. Void + Fire means 'cessation of desire').

    I know what your talking about, but its the compiled standard Qigong of all china. There are many sects with many different views. Somewhere along the centuries the concept of Zhen QI, breath Qi, and several others have been rolled into one....and it doesn't really make sense.

    But when it comes to these things no one will heed whats written on a forum. So I'll have to leave it there. The character is worth looking up though It has a bit more meaning than the standard 'Vapour'.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 07-18-2011 at 12:20 PM.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    I'm Shaolin, but I also practice SongXi (Wudang). I learned from an old man in a forgotten village, but thats not important

    炁 is the character specifically for ZhenQi, its not used any more. (Combin. Void + Fire means 'cessation of desire').

    I know what your talking about, but its the compiled standard Qigong of all china. There are many sects with many different views. Somewhere along the centuries the concept of Zhen QI, breath Qi, and several others have been rolled into one....and it doesn't really make sense.

    But when it comes to these things no one will heed whats written on a forum. So I'll have to leave it there. The character is worth looking up though It has a bit more meaning than the standard 'Vapour'. (The actual character is a little different to 炁 but thats the closest still used)


    Thanks for sharing.

    For me, it doesnt matter how the character is written. the important point is how to cultivate it.

    what I am quoting is a proved, do able , and safe cultivation path, which accord with TCM, we dont want to mislead the Westeners and screw them. a proper path must be reveal.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-18-2011 at 12:27 PM.

  3. #18
    内功经
    For those who is serious and interested, this is the real deal of Neigong in Chinese Martial art tradition.



    内功之传,脉络甚真,不知脉络,勉强用之,则无益而有损。

    卷一内功篇


    学医道者,不可不明乎经络,何况习内功乎?若不明脉络,犹习射而操弓矢,其不能也决矣。能内景遂道,返观而 以察之,则体用兼备矣。

    前任后督,气行滚滚,井池双穴,发劲循循。气纳丹田,冲起命门,引督脉过尾闾,由脊中直上泥丸,下人中龈交 ,追动性元,引任脉降重楼,而下返气海。两脉上下,旋转如园,前降后升,络绎不绝也。井者,足少阳胆经,肩 上陷中之肩井穴也。池者,手阳明大肠经,屈时横纹头陷中之曲池穴也。大肠经所入合土,土生金,手足少阳,足 阳明,阳维之会,连入五脏,周身发劲之所也。

    龟尾升气,丹田炼神,气下于海,光聚天心。龟尾者,长强穴也。谷道轻提,真气自然上升矣。丹田者,冲脉(上 起百会,下达会阴),带脉(腰一周之脉)之中,脐下内部也。为男子精室,女子胞宫所在,调整呼吸,固精健肾 ,练神之所也。小腹正中为气海,额上正中为天心,之气充于内,形光于外也。

    既明脉络,次观格式。格式者,入门一定之规也。不明此,即脉络亦空谈耳。

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik
    because if you take animal product and trying to cultivate and accumulate Qi in your Dan Tian, you will end up leak it out via sexual dream or unknown anger which disrupt your mind body.
    This is the type of thing I'm saying you can't just claim without providing evidence to support it. If you have no evidence, there is no reason to believe it to be true and you shouldn't pass it around as if it were so.

    Like the other things in the Zhan Zhuang thread you asked to have translated. They are just more claims of the same type, without evidence.

    For example; "荦食者比素食者更易冲动,更有进攻性,这从动物界的行为能看出来。"

    My translation is; "Meat eaters are more impulsive and aggressive than vegetarians, this can be seen in the behavior within the animal kingdom."

    This is ridiculous. Carnivorous animals are of course more aggressive because they have to stalk and chase their prey. They don't get a free and easy meal like vegetarians. This is not at all caused by what goes into their stomach.

    To use examples in the animal kingdom as proof of emotional or personality effects different diets have on human beings is ignorant. What would be accepted as proof of this claim would be an actual peer-reviewed scientific journal demonstrating the claim to be true. Not just someone saying so.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    ...who here is vegetarian?
    I've been on the vegetarian diet for many years. So I'm not arguing against it at all. I'm simply asking for reasonable evidence to support claims made in regards to diet and training of Qigong and high level of Gongfu, which some people have been claiming requires a vegetarian diet.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    For me, it doesnt matter how the character is written. the important point is how to cultivate it.
    You miss the point-

    The difference between 气 and 炁 is not just the way the characters are written. They are very different concepts. Simply put 先天之炁 and 后天之气. The first is intrinsic, the second is extrinsic.

    As Rendahai suggested, look it up.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    You miss the point-

    The difference between 气 and 炁 is not just the way the characters are written. They are very different concepts.

    Simply put 先天之炁 and 后天之气. The first is intrinsic, the second is extrinsic.

    As Rendahai suggested, look it up.



    炁 and 气 has been used to refer to the same thing for the modern Chinese language.


    炁 is just a fancy way of writing 气 today.

    in fact, 炁 is mostly used these days to include some kind of mysterious-ism or show some "superiority" without substance for marketing purpose.




    I am talking specifically Zhen Qi above ; the term uses in TCM and Chinese martial art .

    the following is the standard definition.

    go a head translate it.


    真气

    英文名称: genuine qi

    定义: 由先天元气与后天水谷之精气结合而化生,为维持全身组织、器官生理功能的基本物质与原动力。

    ---------------------





    you really love to play with words isnt it?


    Please make sure you know what is what before post anything to confuse others by playing words game .
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-18-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    This is the type of thing I'm saying you can't just claim without providing evidence to support it.

    If you have no evidence, there is no reason to believe it to be true and you shouldn't pass it around as if it were so.



    anyone who practice Qigong and have accumulated Qi knows.
    I suggest you go cultivated Qi and see for yourself.

    It is passed around because it helps others to avoid wet dreams.
    when one wakes up with the Wet blanket evidence it is too late --- one's many months kung fu is already in the drain.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    It is passed around because it helps others to avoid wet dreams.
    when one wakes up with the Wet blanket evidence it is too late --- one's many months kung fu is already in the drain.
    If you tie a rope around your neck and below your knees to prevent your legs to be straight. As long as you cannot straight your legs when you sleep, you will never have wet dream.

    Unfortunately today no matter how much that I straight my legs when I sleep, I can no longer have wet dream. It sucks to be old.

  9. #24
    To those who is serious


    I am talking 真气 or Zhen Qi or genuine qi specifically because one can then understood precisely the teaching in the above Neigong Chin Martial art Neigong class which I have posted in Chinese.

    for example:
    前任后督,气行滚滚,井池双穴,发劲循循。气纳丹田,冲起命门

    since the 气 or Qi refer in the Neigong Chin is Zhen Qi.


    we want to focus on what is it, how to do it, instead of all the fancy and meaningless 炁 character side track.




    so,
    Is the following idea true?


    @Hendrik

    Zhen Qi can't be drained or stored, at least not in the way that that terminology implies.

    The more it is used, the stronger it becomes


    No it is wrong.


    why?

    because

    真气

    英文名称: genuine qi

    定义: 由先天元气与后天水谷之精气结合而化生,为维持全身组织、器官生理功能的基本物质与原动力。


    Zhen Qi is define in TCM and Neigong as a fusion/creation of the pre-birth Yuan Qi and the post birth Food intake's Jing Qi.

    A big part of this Zhen Qi is from Food. so Zhen Qi is always consume and dissipated unless one refill it with FOOD intake.

    thus, it is misleading to make claim as


    Zhen Qi can't be drained or stored, at least not in the way that that terminology implies.

    The more it is used, the stronger it becomes

    This type of claim is solidly showing one has never really deal with Zhen Qi, otherwise, one knows it cannot be.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-18-2011 at 04:23 PM.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If you tie a rope around your neck and below your knees to prevent your legs to be straight. As long as you cannot straight your legs when you sleep, you will never have wet dream.

    Unfortunately today no matter how much that I straight my legs when I sleep, I can no longer have wet dream. It sucks to be old.

    John,


    Ya, tie the rope so that one cannot sleep flat will help.

    however, if the energy from the meat is too strong, one will get into trouble like eating 5 viagra when one sees a sexy lady, at that point, there is no return.


    after sixty, there are still methods to accumulate the Qi. with technics with proper diet one could do it.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    炁 and 气 has been used to refer to the same thing for the modern Chinese language.

    炁 is just a fancy way of writing 气 today.
    We're obviously not talking about modern language. Why would you even mention modern usage? Unless you are unaware of the classical meaning due to lack of education on the topic, which apparently...

    真气

    英文名称: genuine qi

    定义: 由先天元气后天水谷之精气结合而化生,为维持全身组织、器官生理功能的基本物质与原动力。
    Now here you post something which makes the same point that you refute- that of having two separate concepts, i.e. "先天元气" and "后天水谷之精气". These (结合而化生) combine to make up "Genuine Qi" 真气.

    Originally the character 炁 refers to the former "Intrinsic Qi" (先天之炁), while the character 气 refers to the latter "Extrinsic Qi" (后天之气). These combined create "Genuine Qi" (真气).

    It is just that nowadays people write both as 气, and forget about the separate concepts, as you have. This is a huge mistake, because there are many finer details to these concepts which you will be missing.

    you really love to play with words isnt it?

    Please make sure you know what is what before post anything to confuse others by playing words game .
    No. You just seem a little too naive and uneducated on the topic, while making very large unfounded claims here.
    Last edited by LFJ; 07-18-2011 at 08:50 PM.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post


    It is just that nowadays people write both as 气, and forget about the separate concepts, as you have. This is a huge mistake, because there are many finer details to these concepts which you will be missing.


    No. You just seem a little too naive and uneducated on the topic, while making very large unfounded claims here.

    is it nowadays ? is it a huge mistake?

    Translate the following and see where do you stand with your opinion.




    氣源自於古字气,

    最早是雲氣的意思,是個象形字[6]。[/SIZE]

    它有呼吸、氣息的意思[7],也有米飯的意思[8]。它很快被引申,具備天氣、氣候、節氣、氣味乃至於風氣、流行等等意思,也發展出許多異體字,

    如炁、餼,在唐朝之後逐漸定型為氣。


    至宋代之後,道教思想家為了區別先天的氣與後天的氣,採用古字炁來代表先天的氣,代表無極,氣則被當成是後 天的氣,為太極。這兩個字的意義又被分開。


    但是除了道教文獻之外,通常都以氣來概括。


    http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B0%A3






    Now here you post something which makes the same point that you refute-

    that of having two separate concepts, i.e. "先天元气" and "后天水谷之精气". These (结合而化生) combine to make up "Genuine Qi" 真气.


    Originally the character 炁 refers to the former "Intrinsic Qi" (先天之炁), while the character 气 refers to the latter "Extrinsic Qi" (后天之气). These combined create "Genuine Qi" (真气).

    What's wrong to call it 先天元气 instead of 先天之炁 without using the character 炁?
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-18-2011 at 10:05 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Originally the character 炁 refers to the former "Intrinsic Qi" (先天之炁), while the character 气 refers to the latter "Extrinsic Qi" (后天之气). These combined create "Genuine Qi" (真气).
    .
    Exactly.

    In neigong we have a phrase 'Cong HouTian hui dao Xiantian' Or something like that, the meaning is to return to ones 'Prenatal' 'Intrinsic' 'original' nature.

    A vast amount of training is required in being able to recognise 先天之炁 'Intrinsic' qi. (note the beauty of the character, Void + Fire, NO fire = Cessation of desire, in the prenatal state we have no knowledge of the world and no misconceptions and no illusion and no desire).

    炁 Is different from the other(s). It is mental/conscious in nature. The concept of XianTianQi is not always reconcilable with TCM. In the past there were many doctors but few Neigong masters.

    A vast amount of Neigong training is awareness of 炁. Awareness can only become stronger, not weaker.

  14. #29
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    Hendrik-

    Firstly, in message boards using very large and bold characters usually expresses shouting. Shouting won't make your points.

    If you want to highlight something, simply change the color as I have in the last post. It's easier to read and more pleasant on the eyes.

    Secondly, it's from a Wikipedia article on 气. It's not a very broad article, and doesn't discuss the concept in different systems, such as Buddhism or Shaolin Qigong.

    The article starts off saying Qi is a concept often seen in Chinese Philosophy, Daoism, and TCM. So right from the beginning it states its limited scope.

    The only relevant parts of your citation are; "在唐朝之後逐漸定型為氣" and "但是除了道教文獻之外,通常都以氣來概括".

    The first sentence is talking about; after the Tang Dynasty "气" gradually became the standard character to express the concept of breath, air, gas, etc. in favor over other characters such as 炁 (which has another concept).

    The second sentence says; apart from Daoist documents the character "气" is generally used to express both meanings of 炁 and 气, which Daoists used to differentiate between "intrinsic" and "extrinsic" Qi.

    So what we know from this article is that 气 has become the dominant character, while 炁 is less commonly seen and understood now.

    What the article doesn't mention is the concept of 炁 in Buddhist context, and the important distinction between it and 气.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    What's wrong to call it 先天元气 instead of 先天之炁 without using the character 炁?
    Nothing, but its wrong to confuse its nature.

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