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Thread: Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff

  1. #46
    Okay, thanks. I'll treat that as confirmed for the time being. Really appreciate the help.

    Sorry to bring you down to the mundane plane Please continue with the regularly scheduled programming.

  2. #47
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    This thread is quite amusing

    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    I've been on the vegetarian diet for many years. So I'm not arguing against it at all. I'm simply asking for reasonable evidence to support claims made in regards to diet and training of Qigong and high level of Gongfu, which some people have been claiming requires a vegetarian diet.
    I confess, I tend to judge Shaolin wuseng on their abstinence now. There are members of the Shaolin fold that espouse Shaolin philosophy yet do not adhere to the monastic requirements. This is one reason why I train with someone who has formally disrobed.

    Vegetarianism is challenging for sure. I never imagined I would go veg, but I've been so for several years now. I still eat fish occasionally (technically a pescatarian, not to be confused with pastafarian). And I'm not religiously strict. I mistakenly ate some meat at our TCKFMCIII Welcoming Banquet, which was more funny to me than upsetting.

    I don't think vegetarianism has improved my kung fu or qigong directly. Peripherally, the practice has narrowed my attention and allowed me to focus better. I used to get overwhelmed by the consumer choices that America presents. Standing in the supermarket trying to decide which product to buy or stressing over what would be tastiest to select off a menu wasted a lot of my time for naught. Now, there are whole sections of the supermarket and menu that I don't even have to engage. It saves me a lot of time and energy, which I can dedicate to other things. I suppose if all I did was kung fu and qigong, I'd have more direct benefits.
    Gene Ching
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  3. #48
    Gene and those who is serious in this issue.


    Be very careful.

    The vegitarian food the ancient martial art scrip talks about is closer to the food offer in Fresh Choice or Sweat tomato. It is fresh, nature, and unrefine with very little process food.

    The modern Chinese vegitarian food in the restorant are practically toxic with oil, salt, sugar, and other chemical. fill with lots of process carb. That is not the vegitarian food mention at all. in fact, that is worse then ordinary food.


    So, if one want to really feel the effect of the vegitarian to improve the kung fu and qigong. one needs to diet in the fresh unrefine food. No soft drink too.


    a 21 days or more in this type of diet and have a living similar to living in a small village with no tv and entertainment will show the result of the power of this diet. Obviously, most people dont do this. but to got advance, one has to go this seclusion path. sometimes when one is sick and need to use the Qigong to rebuilt the body or need to get to an advance level, so the sifu get one into this type of living.


    the effect of this type of dieting will effect the body and mind. the mind is much easier to automatically settle itself, the body is light and empty, the qi is flowing very comfortably. it is in this platform that the body could be rebuild or further strengthen. or the Qi storage capacity is increased via the training.




    Not everyone like to do the above, not everyone could affort to do the above, and it is not everyone's path.

    For me,
    However, if we want to talk real shao lin such as in Wugulun, one got to go this path. Sure, we might not be able to do it. however, we must not destroy this dharma due to our own like or dislike.



    It is like the story of the Bhiku Lucky Star who thinking he has attained the second Arahat level where he just attain the second Dyna state. So he slanded the Buddha saying the Buddha is BS. That is not right because it destroy the path of training from one's own ignorance.



    Vegitarian is just a chemical reaction to transform the body, mind, and Qi in the modern term. there is no mysterious.




    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    I confess, I tend to judge Shaolin wuseng on their abstinence now. There are members of the Shaolin fold that espouse Shaolin philosophy yet do not adhere to the monastic requirements. This is one reason why I train with someone who has formally disrobed.

    Vegetarianism is challenging for sure. I never imagined I would go veg, but I've been so for several years now. I still eat fish occasionally (technically a pescatarian, not to be confused with pastafarian). And I'm not religiously strict. I mistakenly ate some meat at our TCKFMCIII Welcoming Banquet, which was more funny to me than upsetting.

    I don't think vegetarianism has improved my kung fu or qigong directly. Peripherally, the practice has narrowed my attention and allowed me to focus better. I used to get overwhelmed by the consumer choices that America presents. Standing in the supermarket trying to decide which product to buy or stressing over what would be tastiest to select off a menu wasted a lot of my time for naught. Now, there are whole sections of the supermarket and menu that I don't even have to engage. It saves me a lot of time and energy, which I can dedicate to other things. I suppose if all I did was kung fu and qigong, I'd have more direct benefits.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-19-2011 at 11:24 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    However, if we want to talk real shao lin such as in Wugulun, one got to go this path. Sure, we might not be able to do it. however, we must not destroy this dharma due to our own like or dislike.
    Like or dislike?

    You speak as if I'm arguing against vegetarianism. As a long time vegetarian, I'm obviously not.

    I simply asked you for evidence to support your claims, you are unable to provide any. So there is no reason to believe you.

    Furthermore, you've demonstrated in this thread that you don't know what you're talking about, and you ignore evidence that is contrary to what you believe.

    (See the article on Buddhist 炁 vs 气 above, a concept which you called BS that I made up.)

    So I'm not sure why you continue to speak as if your words carry weight to people like this:

    Gene and those who is serious in this issue.

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Like or dislike?

    You speak as if I'm arguing against vegetarianism. As a long time vegetarian, I'm obviously not.

    I simply asked you for evidence to support your claims, you are unable to provide any. So there is no reason to believe you.

    Furthermore, you've demonstrated in this thread that you don't know what you're talking about, and you ignore evidence that is contrary to what you believe.

    (See the article on Buddhist 炁 vs 气 above, a concept which you called BS that I made up.)

    So I'm not sure why you continue to speak as if your words carry weight to people like this:


    you have an excellent post.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    Do you think a valid approach to Neigong is to be more interested in listening and observing (both physical and mental processes) and being less interested in technical manipulation of inner energies? Thie former is the kind of approach that feels more sympathetic to me right now.
    They are part of the same thing. But for now don't worry at all about the 'technical manipulation of internal energies'. Focus on observing mental processes. But you need someone to talk to about it, and explain your experiences, this way they are reinforced.

  7. #52
    Let see what is the reality with Martial art Neigong classic said.
    This classical writing is a traditional reference of the Internal Martial atists .


    Here is a brief brief translation so our western friends can know such reference exist in a holistic style in China.


    内功经
    Neigong classic



    内功之传,脉络甚真,不知脉络,勉强用之,则无益而有损。
    The transmission of Neigong, one needs to know the medirians of Qi flow properly. Not knowing the medirians of Qi; brute force/ forcefully / not accord to the medirians handling the issue. There will be no benifit but damage.






    卷一内功篇
    Scroll one, the Neigong chapter.




    学医道者,不可不明乎经络,何况习内功乎?
    Those who study chinese medicine must know Qi flow medirians, for those who practice Neigong even needed.


    若不明脉络,犹习射而操弓矢,其不能也决矣。
    If there is no understanding in medirians, that is like learning how to shoot arrow without knowing the handing of bow. one has no direction.


    能内景遂道,返观而 以察之,则体用兼备矣。
    capable of knowing the inner path ways, one watches it and examine it, only in that way the " body " and " its applications" are holistic/complete mastered.



    前任后督,气行滚滚....

    Ren medirian in front and Du medirian at the back, Zhen Qi flow strongly....


    This classic in not known for most young generation Chinese martial artists or external style martial artists. Thus, it is even rare in the west. One needs to follow a classical such as this when practicing Internal martial art or Neigiong.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-20-2011 at 07:14 AM.

  8. #53
    For those who is interested,


    In my opinion,

    Do you think a valid approach to Neigong is to be more interested in listening and observing (both physical and mental processes)

    and being less interested in technical manipulation of inner energies?


    Thie former is the kind of approach that feels more sympathetic to me right now.

    listening and observing are actually a very broad and fuzzy ideas and too general. it often is like say something but nothing is said.

    Neigong in martial art is a specific training with the goal of transform one's body into a certain way. Thus, specific technical handling and manipulation of mind, body, energy cannot be avoided.


    Neigong in martial art is certainly not philosophical meditation which is up for anyone to define. often, usually, philosophical meditation or even Zen from those who has no proper transmission are just some wishful thinking which gets no where.





    I ask because I feel the discussion is hinging on an opposition between the value of awareness & insight vs. the value of striving for a super-body. Kind of typical Buddhists and Daoists at same interfaith conference argument.

    For me,

    There is no opposition.

    Awareness and insight of a certain Kong comes from the practice of handling the body, mind, and energy in martial art Neigong.

    It is like the chef has develop the chef way of Awareness and insight compare with the Tailor. Chef's awareness/ insight and Tailor's awareness/ insight are different. and no one can train in awareness and insight and having Chef's or Tailor's awareness and insight. one got to do it in specific to get there.


    Even in the Buddhist such as reciting Amitofo and Chan meditation or Daoist accumulate Qi have different handling technics or Dharma doors. every dharma door has its own way of handling. Thus, even in the realm of awareness and insight it is very specific. otherwise one really doesnt cultivate anything.


    In Martial art neigong, there is no Buddhist or Daoists but technology, very specific technology to create something or own some power.

    Thus, it is not a philosophy debate or a mind speculation. Philosophy or mind speculation or reasoning might sound great but at the end of the day, the Kung needs to get one somewhere. otherwise it is wasting energy.

    In today's world, everyone love to have one's style and philosophy and individualism's .....etc. but take a look, what is really going on? a mess with no result in major general.


    Thus, for me, if one doesnt follow the Proven traditional practice which is there and practice by others for hundreds of years and get result, one cant really expect any result.

    also, for those who keeps asking for prove, simple learn from those who has the kung fu, that is the best prove.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-20-2011 at 09:50 AM.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    They are part of the same thing. But for now don't worry at all about the 'technical manipulation of internal energies'. Focus on observing mental processes. But you need someone to talk to about it, and explain your experiences, this way they are reinforced.

    so what is the result by doing Focus on observing mental processes ?

    how is that related to martial art neigong where body strengthening and fa jing are the goal?

  10. #55
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    I don't take my vegetarianism that seriously

    Quote:
    Gene and those who is serious in this issue.
    You've got to understand that I've eaten a lot of meat in my day. I was an avid carnivore, and into stunt food as part of my twisted cultural heritage. I've eaten reptiles, amphibians, bugs, even dog. There's no way I can repay my karmic diet debt at this point, at least not within this lifetime.

    That being said, all this talk of vegetarianism and channels, meridians and such comes off as just muddled noise. I hear the same about martial arts all the time. While there's a certain academic interest, it's really all in the practice. Either you're vegetarian or your not. Either you have a decent kung fu/qigong practice or you don't. I think they can be related in a gestalt sort of way, but to look for justification within TCM theory seems overly intellectual. Just practice it and see what comes of it.

    In that regards, I stand beside LFJ. Surely I support vegetarianism as I practice it. But I don't see evidence that it makes your kung fu or your qigong better.

    I do think it makes you a better person tho.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    But I don't see evidence that it makes your kung fu or your qigong better.

    I do think it makes you a better person tho.


    i think if one is not training about 3 hours up per day, one doesnt feel anything.

    as a better peson, sure, less work for the liver and kidney from meat always make a person more relax.

  12. #57
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    i do qigong after i eat kfc with zero problem

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  13. #58

    I'm post intellectual

    Which is why I ask for pictures of vegetables.

    And if I can learn the one or two biggest and most important meridians then I'll feel set to go.

    Also, restaurant tips are always welcome:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik
    The vegitarian food the ancient martial art scrip talks about is closer to the food offer in Fresh Choice or Sweat tomato. It is fresh, nature, and unrefine with very little process food.
    Last edited by rett; 07-20-2011 at 01:52 PM.

  14. #59
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    Hey Hendrik

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    The vegitarian food the ancient martial art scrip talks about is closer to the food offer in Fresh Choice or Sweat tomato.
    Do you work for Fresh Choice of Sweet Tomato or what?

    Actually, I do like the term "Sweat tomato." Too bad I already declared today's word of the day as ip manifide.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  15. #60
    Sweat tomato is a necessary part of full English breakfast. See near bottom

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St...reakfast_1.jpg

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