What is Structure to you?

[WC1277]

There seems to be an awful lot of ideas going around on what "structure" is and how it is applied and trained, so I'm just going to throw it out there and hope it doesn't degrad down to a beimo match setup like my last thread.

So what is structure to you?

[YouKnowWho]

Structure is something that you just do it and don't talk about it. Ask your opponent to run toward you with full force. If you can stop his forward momentum with your kick. you have good structure. If his forward momentum pushes you back, you don't have good structure. Try 10 times and record your successful/failure rate. That's the true evaluation of your structure.

Excellent - 10/0
good - 8/2
average - 5/5
poor - ...

Another way to test your structure is to tie a bicycle tube on a tree. If you can hold on that tube, spin your body, and not to let the tube to pull your body back, you have good structure, otherwise, you don't.

[GlennR]

There seems to be an awful lot of ideas going around on what "structure" is and how it is applied and trained, so I'm just going to throw it out there and hope it doesn't degrad down to a beimo match setup like my last thread.

So what is structure to you?

From a purely WC perspective?

[WC1277]

From a purely WC perspective?

In regards to the question, yes, but if you want to share about it just in general that's fine too

[Graham H]

Structure is something that you just do it and don't talk about it. .

I would comment but I don't want to talk about! lmfao

GH

[LoneTiger108]

There seems to be an awful lot of ideas going around on what "structure" is and how it is applied and trained, so I'm just going to throw it out there and hope it doesn't degrad down to a beimo match setup like my last thread.

So what is structure to you?

Yeah, I have to apologise for the craziness of my instincts in your thread. I've said so before that I would enjoy a visit from anybody who wants to train and exchange with me and I didn't intentionally set out to arrange a fight with anyone. G has his way with words, so we will see if there is any follow up away from the threads!

With regards to 'structure' I have previously posted a thread on the 5 elements and how this idea is used in the teaching that I received. We considered each area of the body an 'arrival' and divided the body into 5 main areas.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...1&postcount=63

"They are a simple measuring tool for you to assess each technique and how best to apply them"

Unified 5 arrivals is moving with a complete and balanced 'body structure', but I do prefer to use the word 'alignment' over 'structure' for obvious reasons

[anerlich]

Basically, good postural and other alignment to allow leverage to overcome, dissipate or mitigate the opponent's force. Something wrestlers do all the time.

Not saying it's not a valid question, but there have been HUGE flame wars about this on the forum. Look back about a year for posts by tneihoff (sp?) and you will see what I mean.

Alan Orr's DVD's explain an idea of structure which I agree with very well.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Usually when people talk about structure, they are talking about the fighting shell or on guard position (bijong). Structure can also include the specifics of the WC movements.

So what is a good structure? Some people think that a good structure is being able to resist tremendous force applied to your movements (e.g. tan) or your stance. I believe structure to be much more dynamic than that. A good structure should allow you to have dynamic strength to absorb, move, evade, and crash. Fighting is an athletic endeavor that requires a structure that allows for athleticism. If you want to be able to resist 5 men pushing on you or some other silly test of structure, you should be using a specialized stance or application of a block and not general form.

[imperialtaichi]

How do you set yourself up for a 50m dash. How do you push a car. How do you cover someone while playing basketball.

[GlennR]

Basically, good postural and other alignment to allow leverage to overcome, dissipate or mitigate the opponent's force. Something wrestlers do all the time.

Not saying it's not a valid question, but there have been HUGE flame wars about this on the forum. Look back about a year for posts by tneihoff (sp?) and you will see what I mean.

Alan Orr's DVD's explain an idea of structure which I agree with very well.

I guess the only thing id add to this, is that in WC this structure is designed to work best a close range

[stonecrusher69]

There seems to be an awful lot of ideas going around on what "structure" is and how it is applied and trained, so I'm just going to throw it out there and hope it doesn't degrad down to a beimo match setup like my last thread.

So what is structure to you?

http://futsaowingchun.info/articles.html#section3

[Graham H]

In my lineage structure is about putting the body in specific postions so that we can be mobile and deliver force without falling over. Just like when a 100m sprinter pushes out the block his limbs have to be set correctly otherwise when the muscle pushes a weak structure will collapse. Structure also applies to the punch. With the fist vertical, the elbow inside and in front of the body, supported by the hip, knee and correct foot position. In scientific terms we are using newtons 3rd law of motion.

These ideas are introduced right from the start. YJKYM starts this process of turning the feet in, rotating the knee inside and pushing the hips forward. In Chum Kiu we learn to add the step and rotation of the waist. The elbow and the way of punching are the focus of SLT with regards to the upper body. In Chum Kiu it all comes together. Chi Sau/Gor Sau shows us weaknesses in our structure so we can always focus on improving what the forms teach us.

I personally think that those who consider good structure to be about having your limbs pushed on and not buckling under the pressure (sticky chi sau) is incorrect.

In order to make swift changes in direction, to drive ourselves forward, not collapse if we retreat and make strong short range strikes no allowing the force to dissapate in the other direction is what Ving Tsun structure is all about.

GH

[Lee Chiang Po]

In my lineage structure is about putting the body in specific postions so that we can be mobile and deliver force without falling over. Just like when a 100m sprinter pushes out the block his limbs have to be set correctly otherwise when the muscle pushes a weak structure will collapse. Structure also applies to the punch. With the fist vertical, the elbow inside and in front of the body, supported by the hip, knee and correct foot position. In scientific terms we are using newtons 3rd law of motion.

These ideas are introduced right from the start. YJKYM starts this process of turning the feet in, rotating the knee inside and pushing the hips forward. In Chum Kiu we learn to add the step and rotation of the waist. The elbow and the way of punching are the focus of SLT with regards to the upper body. In Chum Kiu it all comes together. Chi Sau/Gor Sau shows us weaknesses in our structure so we can always focus on improving what the forms teach us.

I personally think that those who consider good structure to be about having your limbs pushed on and not buckling under the pressure (sticky chi sau) is incorrect.

In order to make swift changes in direction, to drive ourselves forward, not collapse if we retreat and make strong short range strikes no allowing the force to dissapate in the other direction is what Ving Tsun structure is all about.

GH

That is basically what structure is in any lineage of WC, VT, or whatever. When I was quite young we had a series of posts sticking up from the ground in the back yard, and we practiced our footwork amongst these uprights, and would try to move and land in good enough structure that we could push against these posts with our greatest power. Like pushing a station wagon. Sort of. The attempt was to stay in this structure even during our moving about. It is like putting a stick or chair under the door knob sort of. Trying to keep all the force moving forward.

[Graham H]

That is basically what structure is in any lineage of WC, VT, or whatever. .

Not in some lineages I have experienced mate!

GH

[wingchunIan]

its interesting to read all of the different views on this subject. For what its worth, to me structure is the ability to use the shapes of the system (hand and legs including footwork) to deliver and dissipate force using the skeleton rather than the muscle groups and muscular tension. Lining up the bones allows the practitioner to relax muscles and therefore move more quickly whilst at the same time having the ability to dissipate far greater forces than if they were using their muscles.