Indian wrestlers, ninjas, and real fighters

[Mattador]

I read a book by Masaaki Hatsumi, Ninja Grandmaster, abd the book featured an interview in one of its chapters. The interviewer was a martial artist from India who studied with Hatsumi for the short time he was visiting Japan.

They got into a discussion about sport vs real training. The Indian student said this: "There are many wrestlers in India and it is very popular in the cities. But even the wrestlers will not venture to the country side for fear of the deadly martial artists that live there. One particular martial artist walks 10 miles a day, barefoot, while tending his sheep. He is nimble in the feet and has a scariness about him that no wrestler would want to face."
Hatsumi responds: "I am glad that you recognize the difference between sport and real life training."

My analysis:
1. These deadly countryside martial artists are the one's who are actually hiding from the city and from being challenged. Who is going to roam around the jungle looking for a contest? No one. So these sheep herding tough guys hide away from the city slickers while regaling the local kids with stories of the deadly ten mile walking prowess.
2. The training methods of wrestlers are well known And video taped. They work hard to get good at what they do. The interview made no mention about the training
Methods of these scary fighters from the countryside.

3. Wrestlers get involved with resistance training which is like a dirty word many tmaists. As a kid reading this for the first time I could not help but fantasize about meeting this deadly sheep herder. Then when I started resistance training, combined with YouTube, I stopped fantasizing and started actually training. There will never be videos of these so called deadly fighters because they only exist in oral legends.

What do you all think is keeping this lie alive?

[bawang]

What do you all think is keeping this lie alive?

white people

[Mattador]

white people

I think you are right this time.

[sanjuro_ronin]

A few things:
Competition STARTED with TMA and the "too deadly" still is and always will be part of sport combat arts ( every sport art has illegal moves that are too dangerous for competitions).
The notion of resistance training has ALWAYS been a part of TMA.
Those folk legends are just that legends, but what many don't realize is the truth behind them:
Those masters that are "too deadly" for sport were the masters of those that currently DID sport, that has "retired" to the country life.

Behind every folk tale and legend is the truth, if you look hard enough.

There is an always will be a difference between sport and "real world" fighting, to say they are the same is naive at best.
The issue is that some people forget that "sport" fighting is PART of the preparation for REAL fighting.
It is not and never has been (till now) a question of either / or.

[SPJ]

nin ja used weapons and many of them, ususally specially made.

nin ja planned escape routes and scoped or scouted the area beforehand.

nin ja work in groups.

in contrast

one arm, one blade and one man fighter is sort of not working or fantasy for nin ji tsu

--

[Mattador]

A few things:
Competition STARTED with TMA and the "too deadly" still is and always will be part of sport combat arts ( every sport art has illegal moves that are too dangerous for competitions).
The notion of resistance training has ALWAYS been a part of TMA.
Those folk legends are just that legends, but what many don't realize is the truth behind them:
Those masters that are "too deadly" for sport were the masters of those that currently DID sport, that has "retired" to the country life.

Behind every folk tale and legend is the truth, if you look hard enough.

There is an always will be a difference between sport and "real world" fighting, to say they are the same is naive at best.
The issue is that some people forget that "sport" fighting is PART of the preparation for REAL fighting.
It is not and never has been (till now) a question of either / or.

My issue with that chapter is that they did not outline what it takes to be a deadly countryside fighter.

Let us look at judo. Before judo came Boit jujitsu masters practiced compliant joint locks. Kano institute randori. His students came back and thrashed all the traditional deadly jujitsu fighters.

You bring up interesting points.

[Mattador]

nin ja used weapons and many of them, ususally specially made.

nin ja planned escape routes and scoped or scouted the area beforehand.

nin ja work in groups.

in contrast

one arm, one blade and one man fighter is sort of not working or fantasy for nin ji tsu

--

Modern ninja do not train like that or for that. Go on YouTube and type in bujinkan.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My issue with that chapter is that they did not outline what it takes to be a deadly countryside fighter.

Let us look at judo. Before judo came Boit jujitsu masters practiced compliant joint locks. Kano institute randori. His students came back and thrashed all the traditional deadly jujitsu fighters.

You bring up interesting points.

That much hyped Judo contest showed the importance of live training vs " dead" training, but Kano did NOT create that type of Randori, it existed in the two systems he trained in:
Kito-ryu and Tenjin-shinyo-ryu JJ, both TJMA.
It was not a case of TMA VS SMA, it was a case of freestyle training VS pre-arranged training.

[David Jamieson]

ninja stories are mostly that "stories"

there is no ninja dojo an dthere never has been.

a ninja was a dishonorable scumbag who did dirty stuff for men who could not because they were bound by oath.

no schools, no dojos, nothing, just some guys with maybe some martial skills and a few tricks.

whole villages for hire actually in some cases and fwiw "ninja training" is a hard load of crap.

so yes, deluded suckers keep that alive. I wouldn't say white people though. lol.

racist barbs=

[Mattador]

That much hyped Judo contest showed the importance of live training vs " dead" training, but Kano did NOT create that type of Randori, it existed in the two systems he trained in:
Kito-ryu and Tenjin-shinyo-ryu JJ, both TJMA.
It was not a case of TMA VS SMA, it was a case of freestyle training VS pre-arranged training.

Of course he did not create it. Sparring in wrestling has been done in Monglia, China, India, and anywhere else there was indigenous wrestling. What Kano brought to it was some Japanese philosophy.

[David Jamieson]

Kano brought a sport ideology to it.

[Mattador]

ninja stories are mostly that "stories"

there is no ninja dojo an dthere never has been.

a ninja was a dishonorable scumbag who did dirty stuff for men who could not because they were bound by oath.

no schools, no dojos, nothing, just some guys with maybe some martial skills and a few tricks.

whole villages for hire actually in some cases and fwiw "ninja training" is a hard load of crap.

so yes, deluded suckers keep that alive. I wouldn't say white people though. lol.

racist barbs=

I do not believe it is any one race. Bawang's comment had good timing though.

[David Jamieson]

I do not believe it is any one race. Bawang's comment had good timing though.

Yes, but he left out the real culprits " Americans"

[Mattador]

Yes, but he left out the real culprits " Americans"

Clearly it is not just Americans since tthe two guys from the interview were from Japan and India.

[bawang]

my iranian friend at work says he has a black belt in "kung fu tua" from tehran

theres a baji fetish in japan because of that manga comic

its not just americans


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDJkvvyKJHo