Leaking Hand

[Brule]

Should we try another?

How prominent is leaking hand concept in your style? How do you guys compare it to say Live hand, since that is what we just discussed? Can you give some examples of leaking hand techs?

[TenTigers]

leaking hand, running hand, all different permutations of being alive.
The idea is to hit. (nobody goes in with the idea to trap, or anything else, they go in to hit.)Anything that comes in between that, the hand must be like water going down a mountain-over and under and around rocks, but constantly flowing.

[Frost]

very big idea in 3 of the arts i trained in TCMA, only really met 2 guys that could do it under pressure

these ideas are fine but you need a sound base first and most dont have that

[TenTigers]

very big idea in 3 of the arts i trained in TCMA, only really met 2 guys that could do it under pressure

these ideas are fine but you need a sound base first and most dont have that

like anything, it's what you choose to train and invest the time into.
Most don't, so over time, it becomes a rare skill. Over more time, a lost skill.
Over more time, a movie plot...

[JamesC]

What exactly is it?

[Brule]

I think it's when the strike ends up landing at the target. If you know CLF, think of yum chop, the strike is sent in such a way that even if it is met with a block it leaks past the block and hits the target. Could be the angle in which it is thrown. I'm sure others will have a better explanation.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Because of many southern systems propensity to work inside AND to woke with their elbows "up in front", things like "live hand", Leaking hand" flowing hand", shadow/ghost hand", all become quite important IF the practioner doesn;t want it to "degenerate" into stand up grappling.
The hand being able to turn from on strike, to another, to another with minimal recoil/withdrawl becomes the main factor in keeping the practioner striking as opposed to grappling.

[Indrafist]

I think it's when the strike ends up landing at the target. If you know CLF, think of yum chop, the strike is sent in such a way that even if it is met with a block it leaks past the block and hits the target. Could be the angle in which it is thrown. I'm sure others will have a better explanation.

It's a fundamental idea in most Hakka arts: wherein it's a refined bridging skill.
I take it to be an aspect of 閃 'Sim'. Many Tibetan stylists would disagree with this interpretation, but for me, Sim is taken from the character's shape and form which is a combination of the Chinese character for 'Mun' 門(Gate), and ‘Ren’ 人(Person) - a person INSIDE the Gate, who appears as a flash of lightning.

The Character 間 (Jiaan in Mandarin and Gaan in Cantonese) is often applied to the Indian concept of 'Antarala' (Tibetan 'Bardo') and means: "leak; space in between; interval; between two things; the space between; within a definite time or space". Note the similarity between the Character 閃 (Sim) an that of 間 (Gaan). Both involve the concept of the Gate or Door. Note too the emphasis on to 'Leak' in Gaan, to slip in-between the spatial and temporal points, and by inference, to do this within moments of arc-path, structure and thought, within contact or near contact with the opponent.

So in this sense, 'Leaking' is passing through structural gaps but also gaps in information processing (timing, thoughts). 閃 'Sim' can be a stand off 'evasion' of the opponents structure, or it can like 間 'Gaan' operate to pass through (by leaking' on the bridge or through other aspects of shape and form, as well as thought and perception).

Indra.

[Frost]

Because of many southern systems propensity to work inside AND to woke with their elbows "up in front", things like "live hand", Leaking hand" flowing hand", shadow/ghost hand", all become quite important IF the practioner doesn;t want it to "degenerate" into stand up grappling.
The hand being able to turn from on strike, to another, to another with minimal recoil/withdrawl becomes the main factor in keeping the practioner striking as opposed to grappling.

the problem is i have seen it work very well against other southern/hakka styles, and against styles who wish to striked at that range, still yet to see anyone pull it off against someone who is agtually grappling clinching and hitting from there

[sanjuro_ronin]

the problem is i have seen it work very well against other southern/hakka styles, and against styles who wish to striked at that range, still yet to see anyone pull it off against someone who is agtually grappling clinching and hitting from there

That has to do with how it is drilled and trained, not with its principle.
The sad fact is that too many TCMA train VS themselves and as such, only get good against themselves.

Doing "live hand" vs a boxer is like doing judo grips in a submision grappling match.

[Frost]

That has to do with how it is drilled and trained, not with its principle.
The sad fact is that too many TCMA train VS themselves and as such, only get good against themselves.

Doing "live hand" vs a boxer is like doing judo grips in a submision grappling match.

true that, southern arts became very very incestous from what i can gather, thats why i like CLF so much, gives you a nice option to go with the close stuff

[sanjuro_ronin]

true that, southern arts became very very incestous from what i can gather, thats why i like CLF so much, gives you a nice option to go with the close stuff

There is a away around it though.
The obvious being sparring with other systems, but there is more to it than just that.
Most guys tend to attack the other guys system, they fight the system instead of what is being presented to them:
IE: the "shape" of the opponent.
Now, we all knwo that the opponent hits back, that ******* !
He hite and moves and grabs and kicks and throws and whatnot.
The thing is that every opponent does that in enough of a different way to cause a bit of a mess (understatement).
The solution to that is to fight the "shape" of the opponent and not the opponent's system.
Of course you must deal with him being alive and not just standing there, but the point is that EVERY opponent presents you you certain constants and THOSE are the one you fight.
Fighting someone you don't know means you are unprepared for what they bring to the table, bu if what they bring is LESS relevant, then it becomes less of an issue to overcome.

[Frost]

thanks for this post, a lot to think about, you should teach lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

thanks for this post, a lot to think about, you should teach lol

When I get good enough, maybe I will.

[Frost]

When I get good enough, maybe I will.

trouble is you will never think you are good enough..........and then it will be too late