New Sheriff In Town...

[hskwarrior]

I played football and other sports my whole life in a very mixed community Newark, NJ. I had Asian friends.... so athletic showers.

There's also a thing called Asian porn

Ray, the more i know about you the more nervous i get hahahaha. STOP LOOKING AT ASIAN MENS PACKAGES BRO........LMAO

[Lucas]

See i think that the uniforms, weapons, lion dancing, incense and all that stuff is an element of TCMA, but not a requirement. The true tradition is being combat effective, imo. so as long as you have that, and continue a to work at being effective in the ranges of combat you want to specialize in, then you're golden.

all that other stuff is cultural attachments. fighting is universal.

so like for instance, chinese martial arts based sanda fighters will have something like this: CLF and Shuai Jiao, probably with cross training in muay thai and western boxing. so from my personal point of view, thats still a tcma.

[Ray Pina]

See i think that the uniforms, weapons, lion dancing, incense and all that stuff is an element of TCMA, but not a requirement. The true tradition is being combat effective, imo. so as long as you have that, and continue a to work at being effective in the ranges of combat you want to specialize in, then you're golden.

all that other stuff is cultural attachments. fighting is universal.

so like for instance, chinese martial arts based sanda fighters will have something like this: CLF and Shuai Jiao, probably with cross training in muay thai and western boxing. so from my personal point of view, thats still a tcma.

I think those things are a hindrance, when it's forced or decorative.

What I mean by this is that I train BJJ in Puerto Rico. I'm learning BJJ but I'm hanging out with Ricans, there's guys playing basketball outside with loud music, food stands on the way home.... you cant help but absorb the culture.

If you're training with a Chinese teacher, you'll have those late night dinners, the drives home, the time at the house.... I did.

But one of the things most liberating about MMA is that none of that stuff is there. We're there to sweat and train hard..... think about this. Of the five kwoons I circulated in in the NYC area, only one had mats. Most had vinyl over concrete.... how are you going to train throws, etc. on that?

[Lucas]

Ya I totally get what you're saying, alot of that was there while I was training kungfu also, but we had portable matts we took out for actual throws. When I was training there it was hardbound carpet on concrete in a triple wide garage. We did all our tumbling without mats tho, even down to diving over the pole shoulder rolls. Now I dont train in a CMA school, I'm training judo now. Pretty serious work outs, heck we got a guy crosstraining there that's doing aubu daubi (sp) competition. That's what like 12 guys only in that one. While the focus there is all grappling, I dont think its any harder work than I put in at the CMA school. Diff skillset, alot of the same conditioning tho. Its a free environment in that we have wrestlers bjj and judo, if it works use it in sparring, you won't hear oh that's not judo, etc.

So basically what I'm saying is that my experience is a bit diff than yours. I left the CMA school because it slowly turned into a modern wushu school, which is fine but not what I'm after, but while i was there, when it was what i wanted, it was solid.

sifu had a small school and did not promote, the signs were in Vietnamese, so gradually attracted young Viet kids who wants to be jet Li. Sifu supplied the demand, actually his modern wushu teacher was one of the same guys that trained jet Li.

Well...now I lost my train of thought...old times and fond memories.

[bawang]

Amazing the mods let your un off at the mouth with personal and race-related remarks.

im not racist. im not white.

not to get into a d!ck measuring contest with an Asian .

its not the size of the boat, its the motion in the ocean.

and now I see your a college drop out what, at your mom's house using her internet?

yes. is there a problem officer?

[Taixuquan99]

Me too. But as soon as something is posted requiring objective thinking, requiring some proof of claims.... people get all bent out of shape and start making personal attacks. Which is just beyond me. People who's Kung Fu is made of glass shouldn't throw stones.

Funny, for the most part, the posters I specifically mentioned don't do that much.

In the end, I'm just asking questions

No, you're expecting the martial arts world to be what you want it to be, while crapping on teachers who have produced fighters, while ironically complaining about traditionalists who crap on fighters. And complaining that you aren't a famous kung fu guy. And claiming to be the only internalist fighter in discussion with Mike Patterson. And apparently bragging about your knowledge of underage hooker rates in Shanghai.

I've not seen one discussion of bagua techniques come from you, only the vaguest terms, so what use are you on a discussion board? Ross was good about discussing concrete techniques from TMA, Patterson was making a good show on it, you argue about mma and tma. Most of the guys who I read on here have fought full contact, and all of them have more content to their posts.

Why are their so many masters of so many styles and so few (if any) fighters that can compare with modern standards.

Because they didn't train with aliveness, flash forward to 2011 now.

Someone offered not everyone wants to be a Mike Tyson.... true! And not everyone is physically capable. But how do you deal with a Mike Tyson? How to do with a more powerful man who charges in but has controlled striking and discipline of movement.

Tyson would kill you dead.

BJJ has proven an answer to this dilemma?

Mike Tyson would kill most bjj guys dead.

Taiji is a great theory. Kung Fu's theory regarding force and resistance also seems promising

Judo books have judo techs. Same with boxing. Kung fu books have "every move is for everything" but no specifics, guys online talk about "theory" but not techniques of kung fu as specific. But old kung fu books talked about the techniques. And, funny, they weren't all defenses to straight punches.

Fighting doesn't solve an innate lack of experience in the methods hiding as "principals," fight related training can, backed with availability of common kung fu info.

Thus, discussion of the techniques of kung fu, and entraining of them, will go along faster if all conversation is not reduced to "I'm the martial police, answer my questions," and will go even faster if you don't drive away half the guys who've trained full contact fighters who bring up way more info on kung fu than you seem able to.

[Taixuquan99]

[Ray Pina]

No, you're expecting the martial arts world to be what you want it to be, while crapping on teachers who have produced fighters, while ironically complaining about traditionalists who crap on fighters. And complaining that you aren't a famous kung fu guy. And claiming to be the only internalist fighter in discussion with Mike Patterson. And apparently bragging about your knowledge of underage hooker rates in Shanghai.

I'm complaining that the martial world should be martial, that I have proven my technique in real combat where other masters only do demo video and that Ross, if he's going to take a higher stance than me in martial arts he should be man enough to step up.

I've not seen one discussion of bagua techniques come from you, only the vaguest terms, so what use are you on a discussion board? Ross was good about discussing concrete techniques from TMA, Patterson was making a good show on it, you argue about mma and tma. Most of the guys who I read on here have fought full contact, and all of them have more content to their posts.

Who want to learn technique from a message board?

The two men you noted, Ross/Patterson: zero sanctioned fights. I will add the same for Black Taoist, another noted "master."

Tyson would kill you dead.

Verdad. It's true. I'm not on his level and most TCMAers are not on mine.

Fighting doesn't solve an innate lack of experience in the methods hiding as "principals," fight related training can, backed with availability of common kung fu info.

True. Though the inability of an entire collection of Kung Fu styles, not just a single style, to produce even a insubstantial number of modern capable fighters might tip off that there's a problem somewhere.

Thus, discussion of the techniques of kung fu, and entraining of them, will go along faster if all conversation is not reduced to "I'm the martial police, answer my questions," and will go even faster if you don't drive away half the guys who've trained full contact fighters who bring up way more info on kung fu than you seem able to.

What's the rush?

Half the guys who've trained full contact fighters here? We have what, thousands of members to this forum? Of all the masters, sifu, coaches, how many have sanctioned fighters... 2? 3? 10? That's pathetic!

Maybe less discussion and more actual training? That would be my discussion input.

I'm not a coach. I'm retired from fighting. But if I was a coach or a fighter in a group of thousands and only a handful of figthers... if a dozen of individual styles falling under "Kung Fu" worldwide can only produce a small number of fighters... and those guys are actually doing Thai Boxing and BJJ, what's the point?

Again, I charge that Kung Fu is for men and women who don't want to fight but do form and embrace the culture of Kung Fu.... similar to Trekkies who aren't scientists.

[MasterKiller]

The two men you noted, Ross/Patterson: zero sanctioned fights.

Incorrect. Ross has fought. I believe he lost both his fights, though.

Some people are Bill Belicheck. Some are Tom Brady.

[Frost]

I'm complaining that the martial world should be martial, that I have proven my technique in real combat where other masters only do demo video and that Ross, if he's going to take a higher stance than me in martial arts he should be man enough to step up.
.

He can take a higher stance because he has trained guys that beat you and who have won in alot of different full contact enviorments using his TCMA and BJJ, so what if he doesnt fight, hes older than yo and you dont fight anymore

And other masters...so now Ray you are a master of TCMA?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ross trains fighters and he brings in experts to give his fighters the best instruction possible.
I h ave trained under fighters and under "coaches/teachers" only, by far the best training has been under teachers.
Very few fighters are good teachers, they tend to think what works for THEM works for all and that is hallmark of a BAD teacher IMO.
There are many great coaches that never fought professional, or had losing records or were just journeymen.
No need to name them, we all know who they are.
You judge a teacher by the success and skill of their students.
Period.

[omarthefish]

Ross trains fighters and he brings in experts to give his fighters the best instruction possible.
I h ave trained under fighters and under "coaches/teachers" only, by far the best training has been under teachers.
Very few fighters are good teachers, they tend to think what works for THEM works for all and that is hallmark of a BAD teacher IMO.
There are many great coaches that never fought professional, or had losing records or were just journeymen.
No need to name them, we all know who they are.
You judge a teacher by the success and skill of their students.
Period.

WFT baby!

[sanjuro_ronin]

WFT baby!

WTF is WFT ?

[Ray Pina]

He can take a higher stance because he has trained guys that beat you and who have won in alot of different full contact enviorments using his TCMA and BJJ

His man beat me fair and square. And I admire what coach Ross has done as far as his team. With that said, he paired me, an internal stylist with no MMA experience or wrestling experience with his students, who already had two fights.

See: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/f/E0.../John-Salgado/

It's not the two fights. But as someone who has fought, consider how much training goes into just the preparation for a fight. Invaluable! I didn't know that then. I just showed up to fight and do my best.

I learned a lot. But is says a lot about these little under-the-radar events. The people that run it/profit from it are very close to the coaches who provide the bodies which fill the seats and the refs and judges.

An example is that Ross' guys all weighed in the night before. I show up to weigh in 6 or 8 hours before a fight and have to sit around.

so what if he doesnt fight, hes older than yo and you dont fight anymore

Right now, due to training-related injuries (shoulder) and an upcoming marriage and general shift in focus, I'm not signing on to fight anymore. The guys I've been fighting now are all professional fighters. The level is too high to not be 100% focused and living for it.... I never lived for it. My goal is to be a great writer, not a fighter. Just as a martial artists, the fighting was there.

Ross is another matter. It's personal. And that would be a beating not a fight. And if he's too old to back up his own words by himself, he should be more careful with what comes out of his mouth.

And other masters...so now Ray you are a master of TCMA?

Hell no. The style I have most claim of knowing is Issin-Ryu. The material I use the most is some hand skills I learned from my master. I got a small percentage of what my master had to offer..... with that said, I, a student, have done more than the masters being put forward by the members here. Especially in the world of internal.

Has Mr. Patterson, Black Taoist, that Texas Ba GUa master.... have they ever stepped outside of TCMA and compered their skills with fighters? Boxers? MMAers?

These are people being put forward as the best representatives of their styles. It would be closer to say Don King is the best boxer living right now.

These people are making videos, have students and are looked upon as the holders of what? I'm sorry if I'm coming off as crazy. I have a hard time understanding.... the best hockey players have never played on a team? The best ball players aren't in the major leagues? The best football payers aren't in the NFL?

But the best TCMAers are on the internet talking. Makes a lot of sense.

[Ray Pina]

You judge a teacher by the success and skill of their students.
Period.

That's true... but that's not how you judge someone's martial art.